Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment I'm mildly afraid to ask this question, but...

So we had our first evaluation session for DS4, and overall it went really well. BUT there were definitely a couple places where he just refused to cooperate. Namely, the "say as many of this particular kind of thing...aka animals or whatever.) He just pretty much refused. He was like "I don't want to do this", and had a mini-meltdown. I had to come in and we had hugs and a little talk and things got much better, and he was very into it by the end. But my question is...how badly will something like that skew/mess up the scoring?

In the same regard, the other thing I noticed was there were definitely a few questions throughout where he was being careless and not taking as much time as he needed to before choosing an answer, you know, being kind of lazy about it. Afterward the session, I had a little discussion with him about how he needs to try and take his time and do the best he can, since we have the second session in a couple weeks. I tried to phrase everything in a way that would hopefully stick, but not make him nervous or feel pressured, because that's the last thing we want - we would like him to just have fun with it...yet still get accurate-ish results, you know what I mean? Hopefully that will help. But I'm rambling now. Essentially, I am just nervous about the lack of cooperation really throwing things off. It's kind of gotten in my head and is making me crazy (even though the tester very obviously knew what was going on, so I'm sure there would be something in the report to signify what went down.)

I don't know, I'm probably being overly neurotic about this. Any thoughts, words of wisdom, or calm-inducing vibes would be great.

This is private testing so if the results aren't useful in advocating for your DS, you don't have to share anything with anyone else. If I had my DD tested at that age, either way, I'd be taking the results with a grain of salt. This is not to imply that I think you shouldn't have him tested. It's just that scores around this age isn't all that stable and you'd probably want to have him retested when he is 8 or so anyway. So think of this more as a practice run for him and for you.

My DS bombed that part of the test as well when he did it at age 6.5. I'm not entirely sure which part it ties into but his processing speed ended up being 9th %tile. His VCI and PRI were still gifted and they just did a GAI instead of FSIQ. In general his scores were all over the place (even a couple of the subtests within the VCI/PRI) and we will eventually have to retest to get a better picture but it was good enough for what we needed at the time.

For colours DS's answer was "rainbow, done, easy.". The tester then tried again and he reluctantly said "rainbow, gold, silver, bronze, platinum" and maybe a couple others. For animals he mostly used obscure ones (short faced bear, honey badger, echidna, mageladon come to mind). I was sitting in the corner trying not to laugh or cry because we were spending all this money to find out he was a goof It was all I could do to not shout "what about red, yellow, blue" or "cat, dog, tiger". The tester had a good laugh at the rainbow one.

ETA - watching his testing I was sure he wouldn't score high. He answered questions while hiding under the desk, jumping up and down, throwing and catching a pencil, etc. I walked out of the second session thinking I'd be happy with 100. I was a bit shocked when he scored as well as he did. I'm also pretty curious to see what he could do if he was completely cooperative. Maybe the test managed to see through all of it and it won't be much different, or maybe he will score crazy high. Who knows.

Good luck!

I also would just leave it as "great job!" and not mention the meltdown or that he should focus, and then just leave it alone for now. He has been there once now, and as long as he did not leave telling you he hated it, I would avoid any more references until a day or so before with just a "say, tomorrow we are going back to do it again, remember how fun it was?" then move on to another topic.

trust me, good testers should be able to pick up what is going on. I read an old report from when I was tested at 11 or so, and she clearly wrote that she felt one sub test score was lower due specifically to my attempts to rush through it because it held no interest for me at all and other similar comments that indicated she had a good idea on my weaknesses and how it affected a few subtests that were lower than what would have been expected based on my other results. And with 3-4 year olds, I am sure they have seen all levels of cooperation...

My DS was tested at 3 1/2. Not for giftedness but other issues. I didn't know he would be given an IQ test so didn't even talk to him ahead of time. The tester did let me come in the room, though, so I could see that DS was not trying. Luckily I went in because I do not think it was apparent at all to her that DS was giving her wrong answers on purpose, whereas it was completely obvious to me given the smirk on his face. But I couldn't really say or do anything about it. After a while, he simply refused to answer any more questions and was under the table meowing like a cat. In the middle of the test, at one point, he also took her keys and was going around the room trying all the locks, like her desk drawers. I think he spent quite a bit of time lying under the table rather than sitting in the chair, and she was asking him questions as he was lying down.
When she got to the point where he wouldn't answer any more questions she told me I could bring him back another day. I decided that unless she saw something glaringly wrong with his cognitive ability, that would be pointless. I wouldn't trust the test results anyway. I was shocked when I got the test results in the mail along with a report and the report didn't say anything about the behavior or that she stopped the test! She scored it anyway! His full scale IQ was fine (like 106--now it's a lot higher), and since we were looking for developmental problems maybe she thought it was fine to score it. I don't know. The school system wanted that report and I couldn't give it to them because I knew it was inaccurate information.

I don't really have any advice but it sounds like he calmed down enough that the second session should go a lot better.

FYI, it sounds like the test he was being administered was the WIAT-III, which is an achievement test, or a supplementary subtest from the WJIIICOG. On the WIAT, the word fluency component score is part of oral expression, which is half of the oral language composite. Not one of the subtests or composites that schools will care a whole lot about. (Definitely the WIAT-III, for you, Chay.) Marnie, in your case, it's not clear whether it was the WJIII Cognitive Extended or the WIAT-III. In the case of the WJIII, it's not a core subtest, and doesn't have to be calculated into the GIA (although it does figure into the GIA-Extended, Thinking Ability-Extended, and Long-Term Retrieval), so I wouldn't worry about it.

Overall, examiners are usually pretty well aware of the kind of noncooperation (not necessarily oppositional, just not-ready-for-testing-today behavior) that preschoolers engage in. I haven't worked in a preschool for a while, but I certainly factored that into my score interpretation when I did. Yes, it will probably skew results a bit, but, no, you don't need to prep him to take it more seriously next time. Sometimes that actually backfires. A good examiner will know how to adapt to the child's developmental level. Plus, there's a lot of rich clinical information to be obtained from the way they do (or do not) test. Viz, Chay, your kid's responses (qualitatively) were a perfect example. A good assessor will use the qualitative performance to illuminate the standard scores.

And, breathe!

Marnie, no advice here, but a whole lot of sympathy. I'm going to hold off on testing DS as long as possible, as he's the subversive type, too. I could imagine him behaving like blackcat's son, making jokes out of wrong answers or creating fake patterns to amuse himself. I, meanwhile, would be sitting outside the tester's office fantasizing about ripping up $20 bills in a cold shower.

aeh- thanks for the info. We did the WISC-IV and the WIAT-III. Since you got me all curious, I went and dug out his test scores - his Oral Word Fluency in the WIAT-III came out at 32nd %tile.

Thanks, all. I am not sure which part of what test was what...all I know is that between the two session, he will be taking the WPPSI-IV, some...other IQ test that is a little bit older but good for different things that has slipped my mind at the moment, and I believe the WIAT-III for achievement. We will see what happens, but I think she (the tester) had a pretty clear idea of when he was being a goof or a pain in the butt, as the case may be.

aquinas, yes! $20 bills down the john. that's totally part of the anxiety. I mean, DS, even when engaged and answering effectively, some of the time he would just be really silly (he's a goof by nature). aka when he had to tell tester the answers via their corresponding numbers (1-4), he would sometimes say them all in the weirdest accents (eg. Fo! (4) Wawawawawone! (1) and a nice little r-roll on 3). I kept shaking my head and trying not to laugh/strangle the kid. Luckily, our tester just rolled with it and let him be silly, since at least he was answering correctly with his silly numbers. Such a goober.

Marnie, one hopes they've done this with enough children to know what's going on. It's got to be a little off-putting for a kid to have a strange adult focusing on them, even with Mom in the corner. My son at 5 yrs was participating In a communications study, with me watching from another room, and after awhile I noticed he was really flagging, all that attention on just him. He'd done other studies in the same place, but this was different. I asked if he could have a break, and we ended up finishing the study a week later instead.

All this to say, your assessor sees lots of kids, and gets what's going on. And I think Rainbow is a very abstract in a good way response! If he'd started listing Crayola or Benjamin Moore color names, that would certainly be interesting, and you'd never hold back your giggles