Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion How asinine is the US educational system?

This is a worldwide issue - it's not just the US. Personally I think that the majority of mainstream schooling systems are like this and therefore outdated and rather pointless.

While the HS might not require math courses once a kid gets past a certain point, US colleges do not like to see the student take off a year (or more) from math. Someone might make a similar argument to stop taking foreign language after a year or two if the kid knows what he wants to study and foreign language is not needed. However, the decent colleges don't like to see this. It is a silly game, but we all need to learn to "play the game" to get what we want (and that extends well beyond HS).

As for the tutoring, middle kid's friend just recommended her for a position at a (paid) tutoring program where this friend works - I'm a little concerned since she could potentially be tutoring classmates or older (and I know I wouldn't want to pay and find some kid is tutoring my kid - but this is for another thread.)

But gap years between school and uni are blessed?

Bizarre and somewhat absurd if that is OK but doing using the time to explore interests in more sciences instead of just doing Maths for the sake if it is frowned upon.

Personally, I do not consider any AP courses a substitute for college level classes at any college worthy of being called a tertiary level institution.I do not see AP classes as a route to duck out of or save money on any college classes, myself. I just want my daughter to have a chance to do more sciences while still at High School if she is so inclined when the time comes.

I'm not going to say that AP courses match college level - they do not. My middle kid is taking AP Bio this year, and while she loves the teacher, she is disappointed with the coursework. She knows it is not college level. She even attended a 200 level course (just one class) at a nearby college and was disappointed. This is a well known, highly regarded school, and she was still disappointed by the level.

AP courses are good for getting credit in college. My eldest is debating graduating early, or doing two majors in four years - all thanks to AP credits. The credit give the kid options when they get to college.

This is dogmatic. I earned a 5 on the AP Calculus BC exam. When I went to Harvard, I glanced a few times at the homework and exam questions being given to Harvard's "regular" calculus class (the one taken by biology, economics and other non-math majors). The questions were on material I had seen and were not above the level of my high school calculus class. In fact, the calculus textbooks authored by Harvard instructor Deborah Hughes-Hallett have often been criticized for their lack of rigor. I started with multivariable calculus and was not hampered by not having taken single-variable calculus at college.

I doubt that Harvard's "regular" calculus class is much more difficult than that of other colleges. Its Math 55 course probably has counterparts at only a few selective schools. Harvard et al. are so expensive that it makes sense to take courses at them which are not offered at other places (including high schools).

I had a similar experience as Bostonian with my engineering math and science courses.

The first year was mostly a repeat and required no actual class attendance or work.

This depends entirely on how the H.S. Class is taught. All AP Classes are not of the same rigor. There is a huge variation of quality this depends on the teacher & how they teach the class.

And what you mean by substitute for college level classes varies. Depends on what college class you want to replace, and at what university. Typical AP course is only a one semester/one quarter not an entire year. Non calculus AP Physics doesn't really help you unless all you need is a Gen Ed Science credit. AP Calculus can replace anywhere from the first semester to the whole year, it depends on what your going to do with it. Are you a Engineering Major or studying pre-Med?

My experience with AP courses (me taking them) is like ancient history at this point, but as my ds is moving into high school I've been a bit surprised at how they seem to have evolved since I was in high school. It's disappointing to me to see that so many of them seem to be the equivalent of 1 semester's worth of a college course rather than a full year's worth, and my dh and I are now seriously rethinking - do we send our ds to the high school program that allows for the most AP courses or do we send him to a program which will allow him to start taking college courses earlier and just skip the AP courses.

Back when I was taking AP courses, my one year of AP Calculus was equivalent to what I would have had in my first year Calculus course at my very highly respected engineering college, and getting a 5 on that test allowed me to place out of that first year of Calculus, which worked out a-ok. My AP Physics course was the full first-year Calculus-based physics course typically taught at engineering and science university programs, one semester mechanics, one semester ee. Credit for AP courses at my college was determined by individual department heads, so for whatever reason my 5 on the AP Physics exam only earned me one semester credit - for the mechanics semester. There was absolutely *nothing* new presented in the semester of ee I had to sit through - and again, I was attending a very rigorous highly respected engineering college. (and I'll be honest here - I didn't mind sitting through one class that first semester where I already knew everything lol!)

Personally I'm just a bit bummed about what seems to be available for my ds to take in terms of rigor and pacing with AP courses. There are a lot of them out there now, but I'm not sure the choices (where wer'e at) are all that great for a kid who is really capable of working at a college level. Even for kids who aren't DYS-level in ability but who are one-two years ahead academically, I don't understand why the AP courses need to be watered down? Is there something that is supposed to happen overnight developmentally when a student receives their high school diploma that makes them all of a sudden ready for a twice-as-much-material in one year course?

Stepping off my little soapbox for now!

polarbear

Just be careful of the college courses versus AP courses. Sure, AP courses are not that rigorous, but around here, my older kids would say that the local CC courses were okay for their 9 year old sister, but not for kids much older than that. If you have decent four year colleges near you, that may be a good option. However, the HS may not want a kid taking college courses until he exhausts the courses at the HS.

Do you have a school in your area that will allow him to take college courses early? That really isn't an option in my area. One can take community college classes, but the H.S. has to approve these courses and they are unlikely to approve courses for courses they already teach unless there is a major scheduling conflict.

BTW my knowledge of what AP Courses cover what comes from college catalogs, parents of current college students (many at top universities), and UC college professors.