Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion How asinine is the US educational system?

I ask in all seriousness.

When I was a schoolboy in England one just needed to demonstrate mastery via O/A-levels and beyond that nothing else really mattered.

Over here, I am confused because it appears as though one must simply mark time in high school and that is about it. There doesn't seem to be any other yardstick other than having so many years of high school Maths,English etc to be able to 'graduate' from high school. And without that high school 'diploma' one is just about SOL when applying to go to university in the US.

From where I stand, it seems as though one could have stellar SAT/ACT/AP subject scores and still be spurned by any college here without a high school 'diploma'.

I ask because (and maybe I am the stupid one here) my DD is currently absorbing Maths like a sponge and I want her to a) proceed because she likes it b) keep her in her ZPD so we 'after school' Maths.

However, if she has finished AP level maths by the end of the sophomore year does that mean she will not be able to 'graduate' high school because she will not have the required years of high school Maths and therefore not meet matriculation requirements for colleges here?

I had been thinking that with Maths (up to Calculus BC) under her belt she would be free to delve more deeply into other interests if she still had high school years to go before university because CC's here are not great.

Am I wrong to after school Maths after all?

Yes, I agree with Portia-- figure out what strategy will work best when your child begins studying geometry or algebra-- the reason is that state requirements can shift UNDER YOU when your child enters high school.


That is, credentialling via something other than afterschooling probably isn't optional, firstly-- it's going to HAVE to go onto a transcript somewhere somehow--

but also, make sure that geometry and algebra II are on that high school transcript.

Why? Well, because "four years of math" is often the oversimplified version of the following:


Yes, this really can mean that your child with AP calculus can be denied a high school diploma if they took geometry as an 8th grader and it didn't get onto a high school transcript.

So in short, I agree with your set of concerns-- and I'd be wary of doing too much of this as homeschool/diy enrichment, because you'll lack the credentialling that is necessary. Please note that credentialling is no indication of quality, of course.

Yes and NO.. For math you can do this easier than English. And it depends on the school. To get into my local university one only needs to prove at least mastery of Algebra II. One can take the SAT II Math Test for this, or pass AP Calculus Test. (NO class is required to take the test.) Officially our school requires 2 years of math, at minimum passing Algebra to graduate. But you must take 2 years in H.S. But if you take A.P. Calculus as a freshman (as one of my son's classmates has done) I believe your math requirement is considered done as there are no higher math classes.

My son just told me that other freshman in his H. Algebra II class are taking the AP Calculus test tomorrow. Not sure what that accomplishes, perhaps they won't have to take any more math at the H.S.? In my district the math co-coordinator is strict and if you want to take the honors math sequence you MUST take it in order from the district and not skip. He does not allow any outside coursework to count. (He is not popular amount the gifted kids parents.) On the other hand it is possible to get on a track to take Calculus as early as a 9th grader but you have to start back in 5th grade.

On the other hand. English requires 4 years in class. You can take AP English classes, and you might be able to get a summer or online English course to count. But you can't just test out of it. And 3 years of Social Studies.

Foreign Language is the only other course that I know of you can test out of instead of sitting through a course. My son mentioned that a number of kids he knows are taking the AP Chinese test this spring. These are kids who speak Chinese since birth and have been taking Saturday school for years. Universities will usually count an AP Test or a SAT II test. For languages the SAT II test can be harder than the AP, I was looking into this because my son was interested in taking Japanese a class not offered at his school. My H.S. only required 1 year of a foreign language OR 1 year of performing arts so this isn't a big deal for H.S. graduation.

There are ways particularly in math. Some school districts have higher level math. Some private schools offer more flexibility. My district does accept online courses and classes taken at a community college or university to count. But only one or two of those courses per year will count towards graduation.

Good Luck. Keep in mind that what is required to GRADUATE from H.S. in the U.S. is different from what is required to get into university. Universities can be more open to accepting a test as mastery, and many U.S. high schools have very low requirements.

Check with your school district in your area. My son's Algebra & Geometry class will not go on his H.S. transcript and he will be allowed to graduate. Although what this might mean is that is GRADES won't show up on the transcript, it is assumed he passed both classes to be enrolled in Algebra II as a freshman.

For what it's worth, in California 30 years ago, I dealt with this by "testing out" of all the classes between Algebra I (taken in 8th grade) and Calculus (taken in 9th grade). I did all of the quizzes for every chapter of every math class, which was a lot of work, but nicely filled up the time after the AP test when everyone else was watching movies or cutting class. Looking back, I am very grateful to my calculus teacher for agreeing to grade all those.

And I had a ridiculous amount of math on my transcript for freshman year, since I got credit for all those "tested out" classes. I could easily have graduated in 3 years if I'd wanted to.

The recent tweet of the Davidson database updates includes a resource related to this topic of alternative paths. It is an encouraging article called Tips for Parents: Taking Control of your Child's Education (2014).

This might not be a problem. We are in PA. Middle school Algebra I and Geometry do not go on the HS transcript. Every year there are a few 8th and 9th graders that have taken all of the HS math courses (through Linear Algebra), and they attend classes at a local university (fortunately, there are three 4-year schools within walking distance). No one goes to the local CCs, because they are further away and they are not as good as the nearby colleges. It is fine at our district HS if you never even take a math class there - you just need three years of math somewhere.

Linear algebra in a high school?

Yes, Linear Algebra. Because if you take AP Calc BC as a junior (not uncommon here), what would you take as a senior?

Hopefully nothing Mathy unless you really want to but can delve more deeply into other interests instead. Am I being pitifully naive?