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Joined: Oct 2011
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Val: Sounds a lot like the experience of the kids when my DD played on the under-8 soccer team made up primarily of private school kids (DD was homeschooling that year). Every parent there complained about the kids' schedules, and how difficult it was to push their tired kids through an hour of homework (which could increase to 2+ due to noncompliance) after soccer practice.
I was like, "you're paying them to do this to your child?"
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Joined: Jul 2011
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So again, it all seems aimed at making everyone look highly gifted. I fixed that sentence for you.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Do you really think it makes them HG? I have not seen that happening in DD's peer cohort, myself.
I have seen that the motivated HG ones wind up looking more like EG/PG, and the MG ones can (briefly) look HG-- mostly on paper, though, and as noted, at pretty extreme personal cost.
Or is it just presumed to do so, and that is the justification used by those in favor of treating children like wine grapes?
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Or is it just presumed to do so, and that is the justification used by those in favor of treating children like wine grapes? It's a processing step. Without it, they don't ferment properly.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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I asked my son a few weeks back what he thought the kids getting A's in his math class were doing that he wasn't. He thought most of them had already taken the class. I believe what he means by this is that had spend their previous summer taking one of the "prep" classes that is offered in the area. These are so common that the district enrichment summer program offers them.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Exactly. This "open to all" thinking is just strange to me but it might be because I see "special educational need" as anything outside of the central 2 standard deviations.
This strikes me, therefore, as inherently about as silly as a group of people arguing that their insurance companies should cover a seeing eye dog because they happen to like Golden Retrievers a lot. (Come to think of it, there are people who like dogs so much that they see no real harm in falsely calling them service dogs. {sigh} Nevermind.)
It's not a "need" for a some of the people rushing to the front of the line. The reason that they are doing this is that there is an arms race in terms of college resume-building. This problem (mostly) wouldn't exist on this scale if not for mediocrity pushing up from beneath and high-pressure perfectionistic standards pushing DOWN from on high. Er-- at least, there wouldn't be such an issue if regular classroom settings were doing a reasonably good job (as noted multiple times within this thread).
.....
The upshot of all of this is that when parents are allowed to redefine what education means (so that it's easy enough for their kids to hit the ceiling, they might well be VERY strident about wanting that ceiling LOWER) then it's absolutely about making sure that nobody looks more capable than their own kids. This is where I thought 120 was coming from: The folks making the tests and using the tests who think 120 IS gifted level, at least on some tests. https://www.gifteddevelopment.com/About_GDC/newiqtests.htm"The gifted validation sample reported in the Technical Manual of the WISC-IV achieved a mean Full Scale IQ score of 123.5 (Wechsler, 2003). The mean IQ score of 202 children in the gifted validation sample of the SB5 was 124. Therefore, cut-off scores for gifted programs should be lowered to 120, rather than 130 (Rimm, Gilman & Silverman, in press; Silverman, in press, a)." So, in short, if the yardsticks, or two major ones, have changed, screaming about folks who qualify for gifted classes based on these new measures doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. These are the same level students who previously were getting 130s on the old wisc/sb tests (presumably).
Last edited by chris1234; 04/03/14 09:21 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Thankfully, no high school student suicides around here. Eating disorders and substance abuse, yes, but not suicides.
We're definitely not interested in participating in this race. My #1 parenting priority when it comes to education is not burning DD out. I want her to hold onto her love of learning all her life. To me, that is a goal worth striving for. Getting into HYPS is not.
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Joined: Jan 2008
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I didn't read all the pages. But I have read Madeline Levine's Price of Privilege. And one, she talked about letting kids go out and play. I moved to a really safe neighborhood in Toronto. DD takes the school bus 2 blocks away, in front of the local elementary school, to the gifted school. I was trying to give her a little freedom on Tuesdays, when I had a conflict to walk home with a boy in her split class, a grade above, who lived past our place. She enjoyed the independence. About two miles away, but still in the general zone, a mother lost track of her 5 year old in a Target and the girl was sexually assaulted. And the school bus company would not let my daughter off the bus unless I was there, after the incident.
So unless you schedule things, or plan playdates, it is hard to let them just go out and play. Which means you have to be out and about with them. I think finding that compromise without the activities to fill their time, because my kid will watch Disney reruns, is hard. She cannot just go out and play.
Attitude is a different story but I don't have a kid with an IQ of 121. I have a kid that is fully capable of being on Harvard's screen and has legacy. So where does that leave me in terms of being a Tiger Mom?
Shades of grey or gray?
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Joined: Jul 2010
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So unless you schedule things, or plan playdates, it is hard to let them just go out and play. Which means you have to be out and about with them. I think finding that compromise without the activities to fill their time, because my kid will watch Disney reruns, is hard. She cannot just go out and play.
Attitude is a different story but I don't have a kid with an IQ of 121. I have a kid that is fully capable of being on Harvard's screen and has legacy. So where does that leave me in terms of being a Tiger Mom?
Shades of grey or gray? Why can't she have free play? Your backyard. A playground with you sitting on the bench. Your house without the TV on? But, Wren, haven't we had this discussion before and you proudly describe yourself as one of these high pressure parents? Your priorities are for structured activity and a lot of academics from a young age, aren't they?
Last edited by Tallulah; 04/04/14 03:58 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2008
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So unless you schedule things, or plan playdates, it is hard to let them just go out and play. Which means you have to be out and about with them. I think finding that compromise without the activities to fill their time, because my kid will watch Disney reruns, is hard. She cannot just go out and play.
Attitude is a different story but I don't have a kid with an IQ of 121. I have a kid that is fully capable of being on Harvard's screen and has legacy. So where does that leave me in terms of being a Tiger Mom?
Shades of grey or gray? Why can't she have free play? Your backyard. A playground with you sitting on the bench. Your house without the TV on? But, Wren, haven't we had this discussion before and you proudly describe yourself as one of these high pressure parents? Your priorities are for structured activity and a lot of academics from a young age, aren't they? Ouch. We go for 2 hour walks with the dog along the lake and find mink etc. And we are in an apt, no backyard. And playdates are structured activities. They are not, running out the back door like I did and into the woods with friends or alone and finding something to occupy myself. And DD is an extrovert. TV off, she goes into her room and sometimes plays with Barbies but sometimes the technology goes on. She is not great without friends. Either was I. I was always looking for someone in the neighborhood to play with. And in a neighborhood full of kids, you could find someone. That is hard today. Your kid wanders around alone, a parent will call you, like are you crazy? And being on the park bench is time consuming. Perhaps you have hours of time to sit on a bench while your child explores the park, how many can do that everyday. Because a kid is like a dog, it needs that play/social interaction everyday, not once a week. So if not structured, what is your solution, you with the political sense and judgement of a --- fill in the blank.
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