Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Free tuition at US public Universities?

I had the same thought, but it appears that the advantage of doing this was removed in 2007:

http://www.finaid.org/savings/loophole.phtml

Agree completely-- and I'm most appalled that the pool of "pure" merit $$ seems to be an ever-shrinking one, leaving students who are most ABLE (but rather boring, unremarkable otherwise... but-- please note, that also makes them rather more likely to FINISH school predictably as well) competing for an ever-shrinking pool of funds in the face of enormous costs that keep on going up and up.



It shouldn't take being a PG hotshot to get a free ride at a state flagship-- but it often does mean just that now.

Careful there HowlerKarma, you just said a bad word in these circles with "state flagship" With what I read here often I'm lead to believe that the general mindset in these circles is that one has to go to an Ivy League school in order to get a good job, which, of course is silly, in fact, everyone I know with an advanced degree tells me, "To be honest, don't waste your money going to a big name school as an undergrad. Such schools devote very little time and attention to undergrads and you're likely to get a more personalized and better education as an undergrad at a state school or smaller college. The latest to tell me this is currently Harvard researcher with his Phd in Organic Chem.

I'm just asking people who frequent this forum to examine if indeed their child is going to get the most bang for their buck at a particular college and not to go into massive debt and especially not to start your child's adult life in massive debt, for a college pedigree that nobody will every know about once they're in the working world.

I built a home for the head of thoracic surgery at a very well respected state univ. hospital (was recently offered the same position at Johns Hopkins)He told me hardly anybody knows this but he didn't focus very well in college and couldn't get anyone to take him for medical school in the US, he eventually got accepted at a medical school in the Caribbean. Funny things is, nobody yet has asked to see his med. school diploma before he's opened them up for heart surgery.

I know numerous people with similar stories. You can get there from here without being in debt for the rest of your life in school loans or playing the "game" trying to get into big name schools.

That's because the people who care about these things don't bother setting up surgeries with him.

Generally, you pull the medical board information and do your analysis before you select your surgeon.

You pull the educational background and residency information, and then use it as a proxy for intelligence and skill as a first screen before you narrow your search and look for additional information.

Yet I don't now of one person who has done that. Are there people who do so? I'm sure there are, however, it doesn't matter to enough people to make career or make a enjoyable living or not.

Since I've had to do this for family members, I will have to say "yes, there are people who do things like this".

Granted, the two most important pieces of data are how many times they've done the procedure and their age. You want to have a surgeon at their peak.

The entire career/enjoyable living issue has more to do with cash flows and monopoly power within the U.S. medical-insurance complex.

I did this, under DH's guidance, when I had knee surgery. I chose a guy with the right age, school and he had 2 days a week where he ran through knees in a special surgery clinic. DH, who was a physician told me to go with someone who knew recent techniques but wasn't just out of residency and did 100 a week. Maybe not a 100 but he did a lot.

Exactly!

I'd agree with you. It has more to do with cash flow and how one manages what they earn than it does where they went to college. If a person starts their career with 120k+ in college debt it's difficult to build wealth. Better to go to state college and graduate with a min. amount of debt, then you can put some stock into a big name / expensive college for grad school if you really think you need it.

I'd also agree that experience is far and away the most important thing to research on this matter.

This meandering thread has a great unrealized potential. Its stated topic — "Free tuition at US public Universities?" — is a question, but perhaps it should be restated as an exclamation: "Free tuition at US public universities!"

Unfortunately, a question tends to provoke waffling and weasel worded responses that search for angles that are more interesting to ponder, and the meander thus far is proof of that. If the topic were an exclamation (a clarion declaration of rights), it would demand sudden allegiance of some sort, either an actual step-forward commitment to a worthwhile cause or the quick mustering of a counter force adequate to defend the status quo.

So let us here test my theory.

I have proposed an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that explicitly requires free tuition at U.S. public universities for our nation's most gifted young people. My proposal is simple and is also exceedingly fair to all without exception. Indeed, every American who cares about America with any sense of pride and patriotism should fully support my proposal without any hesitation at all.

The language of my proposed amendment that applies to "free tuition" is the following:

Section. 2.
The Congress shall require the States to provide thirteen years of tuition-free public education for all United States citizens and all otherwise legal residents from age five through age eighteen. Public education shall be according to three national standards:
1) Every student shall be literate at no less than age-appropriate-grade-level (plus or minus one year) while being actively challenged and fully facilitated to achieve personal potentials in all core academic subjects, including those of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (“literate” being defined as educated, cultured, and lucid within an American social, philosophical, and historical context as taught in a thirteen-year standard curriculum that explores America from 1492 to the current time, with an ability to read, write, and effectively communicate in the English language using current computer technologies);
2) Exceptional students shall be individually advanced to the academic level at which they can succeed while being challenged; and
3) Students whose academic skills competency and knowledge proficiency are measured in the aggregate minimally either two years below or two years above age-appropriate-grade-level shall be designated as Special Education students and shall receive educational funding at twice the normal rate (competency and proficiency testing shall be done when requested by a teacher, parent, or student).

Thirteen years of tuition-free public education shall not be defined by the completion of a thirteen-year standard curriculum that ends in high school graduation in every case. Some lower-tier Special Education students will remain functionally illiterate despite all teaching efforts while some upper-tier Special Education students will graduate from a community college or a public university before their nineteenth birthday and shall thereby receive their college and/or university education on a tuition-free basis.

The term “tuition-free” applies only in the case of public education institutions, including any school designations that encompass any part of the spectrum from kindergarten enrollee through master degree recipient, that is: inclusive from primary school through public university. It does not include graduate studies at the doctoral degree level.

Students who enroll in private schools of any sort shall receive government vouchers that are the equivalent of their local public school tuition if the private schools they enroll in are accredited by the government. Government accreditation of private schools shall only regard standard subjects that are common to local public schools and shall not regard religious subjects of any sort. A homeschool student shall receive government vouchers to rent textbooks and an educational computer hardware and software package if those items have been approved and accredited by the government for homeschool use, if the student is fully registered according to the laws governing homeschool status and is government-approved in that status, and if the total worth of the vouchers for the student does not exceed the local public school tuition cost.

The government vouchers shall pay the vendor or the private school directly in all cases, and in no case shall government vouchers be redeemable for cash by either a student or a student’s parent or legal guardian.

Section. 3.
The Congress shall require the States to identify all exceptional students who are intellectually either moderately-to-highly gifted or exceptionally-to-profoundly gifted by standard academic measures (“moderately-to-highly gifted” being in the top two percent or 98th percentile and “exceptionally-to-profoundly gifted” being in the top one percent or 99th percentile). The United States shall recognize its most gifted citizens — its geniuses — as a natural resource and a national treasure, and shall maximize the potential of that resource and treasure through its public education system in every individual case beginning at the earliest possible opportunity. However, no interventions shall ever be made against the will of the student, regardless of the student’s potential to excel; the Pursuit of Happiness shall stand as an unalienable Right of every individual citizen, even the citizen who is a minor child.

The Congress shall forbid any notion that the purpose of public education is to socialize the citizenry. The purpose of public education shall be to make citizens literate in useful knowledge, confident in factoring new information into old thinking, and competent in self-directed analysis, so that public education might inspire joy and courage in its graduates through the benefits that derive from life-long learning habits, a purposeful informed participation in America’s future, and an enduring appreciation for political dissent and for the American free enterprise system. Public education in the United States shall work to cultivate this flower: that, in every citizen’s life, the gift to America shall be the citizen and the gift to the citizen shall be America.

* * *

To read my entire proposed amendment concerning "Public Education," go to: http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....ed_Amendments_to_the_U_S.html#Post176327

Steven A. Sylwester