Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Reading Level Capped

I dug around in some of my old papers from when I tutored reading. I think I figured out why the first grade teacher demoted DS to a Level L (he was at a O last year). I found a chart showing a BAS CEILING for first grade, mid-year of Level L. Yes, a ceiling. They apparently don't even assess higher than that.
Then I found this board.
http://www.heinemann.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=600
I'm annoyed. No wonder the teacher gave me some line about DS needing to "work on comprehension". He probably did just fine on the Level L assessment but they didn't assess higher because that was the BAS ceiling and the district is simply not going to do that. This is a "new" system that was not in place last year, and if the K teacher assessed him it was something she did on her own. Now she is probably being advised that she has to keep her K kids at their BAS ceiling of Level D.
I am going in to talk to his current teacher next week and the principal and curriculum specialist from the district will be there as well. Can anyone advise me? They are just going to tell me that pushing a kid ahead in reading is detrimental to them.

Ds's second grade teacher has him at an "R". He has been at that level since last March. His MAP score in that same time frame has increased by 17 points. Go figure!

I was told this week at conferences that they dont want to put him higher because they are having difficulty finding age appropriate books for him .. grrrrrrrr

They are being "generous" because the BAS ceiling for 2nd grade is Level P.
You know what makes me really mad about this? DD's computerized achievement testing for reading which THEY gave her shows her FIVE grade levels ahead for reading. She is in third grade but scores like an average eighth grader. The district g/t coordinator had the nerve to tell me that she is WEAK in reading, she may need support, and she might struggle with the gifted reading program at the magnet. Hello? Maybe if they didn't keep kids under a CEILING and limit them to one year ahead, they could get the scores they are looking for.
Please someone tell me what to say to these people, I will memorize it and say it. Otherwise who knows what profanities will come out of my mouth.

I doubt this is helpful but you are not alone...

I am so tired of hearing about comprehension!!! I do realise it is important, thank you very much.

The only thing that has helped is outside testing achievement testing (WIAT-II)... reading comprehension grade equivalent grade 7:2 for my newly 8 year old (mid- year 2). Decoding he maxed out (year 12:9), I am not saying he knows every word he can decode but clearly he is reading well above grade level!

Never mind, I explained he read The Hobbit between year 1 and 2 (and was upset with the first movie only covering a small bit of the book). The full Eragon series, Harry Potter, etc.

I remember asking his teacher when he was age 5 to explain how he could possibly spend so many hours on end reading if he didn't have a good idea of what he was reading.

PS - From year 1 onward I sent all my own books either that I owned (my DS has an older brother so we have a lot) or from the school or public library. His teacher didn't question me :-)

My knowledge about my son's (well my sons') reading level(s) come from the fact that the two boys (5 years apart and annoyingly to the older boy) read many of the same books and then engage in in-depth conversations about the books. In fact, they make me read (or I choose to read) some of the books they read and we have basically what amounts to our own book club meetings in the car or at dinner, led by them.

Also, I still read to them at night and stop and make sure the 9 year old understands words he might not have seen before (and he always already knows them or has figured it out) and stop and ask him to predict what will happen next (we both give our opinion and then see who is closer) and all sorts of comprehension conversations. The boy can comprehend, he can make connections, he can question and theorize, he can find the author's purpose, use context clues, and then use techniques he sees in his reading in his own writing. He can summarize.

He could do this in K reading 3-5th grade level stuff. The first grade teachers gave me the whole "but we need to work on comprehension". I just rolled my eyes. Second grade teacher was where he bloomed because she didn't do the entire "comprehension" line. She got him and recognized his ability.

At my daughters TAG school they stop the test when the student hits two grade levels above their own. It is annoying because it would be nice to know where dd is actually reading. Their reasoning is that if they followed through to the exact level for each child, they would be testing for months on end because each child is reading well above grade level.
They do not restrict books, however. Students choose their own reading.

I looked in DS's "book box" and there were books in there ranging from L through around N, maybe an O or two. But last year at this time in K that's exactly what his book box looked like as well (except he was reading mostly O's). In addition, I think in K, DS was on Level O Fountas and Pinnel, and now it is Level L "A-Z" and those level L's are different, with A-Z actually being lower. The teacher assigned an internet reading program "Raz-Kids" for the kids to do at home. She put DS on Level L a couple months ago. He whipped through it and is now at a Level Q (because there are about 16 books at each level and as long as kids pass the quizzes it moves them on). I asked him if the books he's reading in Level Q are "too hard" "too easy" or "just right" and he said "Too easy, can we just go up to an R?" I was like "Ummmm, maybe you should talk to your teacher about that." She probably thinks I'm coaching him to say things like that. I said in an email that he's in Level Q in Raz-Kids and does just fine with that. Now she'll probably go back and change it to Level L (or Level O if she's generous) and add 80 more Level L-O books. Because god forbid he read above his comprehension or maturity level in terms of content.

Seriously. I find all of this disturbing. Particularly that teacher's lounge link you posted! I had no idea this was a common practice/strategy to have a ceiling. I guess this is why my DS's school is trying to get away with not testing DS. He isn't even that high but he tested one year ahead already at the beginning of the year so I guess they were hoping to just leave him there b/c where would he go if they ceiling him at a year ahead? No wonder the kid is bored. And then she (teacher) has the audacity to try to make me a part of this by punishing DS for me providing him books at his interest and ability level. Imagine if we all (home and school) just left him at that level? Same with math. Last year his teacher insisted he should just stay his level. I finally got the picture and got enough and got him some outside help and he is so happy and surging ahead no problem. My DH has been grumbling "why do we have to pay people to teach DS? Why can't the school do it?" I said because their goal is not to teach him, it is to get him at a certain level. he's at the level so they just stop teaching him. That's their philosophy. Hopefully DH will start speaking up about it now.

I just talked to DS, and he told me he doesn't think the teacher has any books above a Level O in the classroom. I think I'll just say that I'm going to send in some of DS's own books to put in his book box, and that's what I want him to read. I did this once already, and DS had a favorite book, but another kid has it now (a kid that was in his K class last year and the teacher always partnered them up). DS gave it to him before he was done with it. I will put his name in the books and say that I want them back rather than donating them to the classroom. Because if I donate them, then they won't stay in the book box.

This is very normal. According to school, my son's reading level has been at grade 6 for the past 3 years straight. The library only has books for grades k-5. Thankfully his teacher has books of her own in the room at higher reading levels. I honestly don't know what reading level he's at, but it's high enough that it doesn't matter - he can read nearly anything.

You are beating your head against the wall. If it were an issue of the official reading curriculum, then the focus tends to be on writing and you are unlikely to get "differentiation" (other than the built-in open-endedness of many writing assignments) unless the school approved subject acceleration. If it were an issue of "free reading," then send your DS' own books (purchases or public library loans) to school and inform (not ask) the school that is what your DS will be reading. In DS/DD's classrooms over the years, many kids often brought in their own books as well as used what was avaiable in the 100 book challenge baskets or on the teacher's book shelves. As for the "resources" provided to be used at home, just don't use it and provide your own. For example, our school provides lots of electronic resources like Study Island and First in Math, etc. Unfortunately, these tend to be way too basic as well as with Study Island ending in 5th grade and First in Math ending in 8th grade (at least for elementary kids) so that my DS outgrew Study Island in 2nd grade and First in Math in 3rd grade. The resources available online and at the public library are tremendous. Save your fight for the crucial issues such as subject acceleration for your DS.

One school told us that they couldn't allow kids to read ahead because they would run out of books. We offered to send in books, but my daughter wasn't allowed to read those because they felt it would be unfair to the other children.

At another school, we were told they would raise her level if she scored 90% or higher on three AR tests in a row. It never seemed to actually happen, though.

This is where I would use the thing I keep in my back pocket. My son's school struggles with their test scores. If teachers were to not figure out how to educate my son...I have my son's high stakes test scores that I can take...either homeschool or take to another school. They can't afford for me to take his 5s to another school.

I have never had to play that card but believe me I would not hesitate to use it.

And really everyone sees that he is still ahead even with the grade skip at the beginning of the year. How do you hold back kids like that? Just by being him he stretches his teachers to meet his needs.

I'm just going to send them in, we have plenty of books here at home. Even if I never get them back it's not a big deal. I will tell him to put them in his book box.
The teacher meets with small groups (I think) for reading, but I think she's teaching out of the first grade "Journey's" textbook. DS said the it's way too easy. I know there are other kids that can't be too far off from him. It wouldn't be hard for the teacher to have them read a chapter book (or anything more advanced) in their small group. But if there really is a "cap" at L, it's still about a year behind.
The district has grade acceleration for math. That's what I'm meeting with them about. I think they used to have it for reading, but not anymore. They probably think if they do this "Guided Reading" where kids can read a grade level ahead, that's good enough.
apm221--that's so crazy about "running out of books". I'm sure that's just an excuse. Our local Goodwill has literally hundreds of books, a lot of very nice ones that are only 15 cents. The entire school could be stocked with appropriate books for $100. They could also ask for donations from parents and would get a ton. But they insist upon buying new books at regular retail prices. Then complain about their budget.

Sweetie, we told our school district we would have to switch if there were no possible accommodations. However, I couldn't even get someone to meet with me until after we had actually switched my daughter. Now they are willing to offer accommodations if we move her back... However, just suggesting it alone wasn't enough to make any difference.

Let us know how the talk with the teacher, principal and curriculum specialist next week goes! I will be interested to hear what they say and what you say. May give me some ideas for my meeting...

Yes, it will be interesting. The district has a complicated "flowchart" for acceleration, like "try 3 of these 5 enrichments." Only after going through about 50 steps will they consider math acceleration (as in going to a different grade). Well considering he already passed the second grade test at the beginning of first grade, first grade level "enrichments" would be absurd. If they insist upon that, I'm pulling him out. It was NOT this complicated to grade accelerate DD from K to 1st a couple years ago. The district seems to be getting more and more rigid and actually LESS accommodating to gifted kids. The feeling I get is because of the standardized tests and kids missing "standards" because of being moved along too quickly.

That is a serious concern. After all, there is a finite number of books in the world.

You can drive yourself crazy with this stuff.
My ds now 11 has not been harmed by this thinking, I don't suspect.
In 2nd grade the school had accelerated reading program. The books had a point system. Read the book, take a test, get the points if you scored a 95% on the "comprehension" test. Most books at the 2nd grade level were at most 2 or 3 points. Some of the quick books (Captain Underpants) and such were 1 point or less. My son breezed through all the Rick Riordan series. Harry Potter series. And I forced him to read some classics Moby Dick, Oliver Twist. It was not hard to get him to read anything.
He blew the top score away from any previous year score. He didn't even have to try he just loved to read.We owned, bought or went to the public library to get them. He started the Hobbit that year but said it was toooo scary.

They cancelled the accelerated reader program the next year.

He was not the only kid reading above level. Most were not as intense but they were above 2nd grade level for sure. Another interesting thing was how catchy it was in class. Everyone wanted to read the same thing. My son was loaning out his books to a bunch of other kids.

BTW: they did cap your max reading level to the EOY for that grade through Elementary years. It made no sense to me. That was not going to be one of our battles though.

Yes, when we grade accelerated DD from K to 1, there were so many advanced readers in the class that at first I wondered if we made a mistake accelerating her. Probably 1/3 of the class was already reading chapter books. I asked the teacher if this was "normal" and that I didn't think most first graders (early in the year) were already reading books like this and she said that it was an unusual group and when you have a group of advanced kids together they "feed" off each other and want to read what the others are reading. What a concept, let kids read as high as they want to go. If it's too complicated/difficult/mature for them, they're not going to do it. DS has a different first grade teacher but I know the one DD had is still trying to move kids up, assessing their reading, etc. I asked DS's teacher when is the last time his reading was assessed, and she won't answer any of my questions. If it's a situation where she simply CAN'T give him a higher level assessment due to some sort of bizarre school or district policy requiring a cap or celiling, then fine. Let me know. But don't just avoid/ignore the questions.
She did respond to my email where I told her I'm sending in harder level books and said that sounds like a good idea. So the main problem is the instructional level.

My question (and I think Blackcat's question also) is how do we deal with this? I'm interested in knowing what should I do and say to the school to deal with this situation. Like a script to help us not start ranting. Because my DS is not happy staying reading the same books at the lower level. Nor am I happy about it. It may not affect other children's learning but it certainly does affect my DS's learning. When he is not permitted to read higher level books his reading level does not move up. He loses out on vocabularly, reading skills, comprehension... not to mention he misses out on challenge (that he loves so much) and growing as a reader. The more he reads and the more he is permitted to move up at his own rate the more he grows as a reader.

So, at present, we are in a situation where he was beyond the end of 2nd grade in the beginning of the year (he's in 2nd). Teacher placed him at that level - the last level for second grade and is leaving him there. If she says in our meeting in 10 days "I can't move him up to where he really is because we cap it. That's where he has to stay," what can I say/do to make this a better situation for DS? Should I just say "look, then I am sending in books whether you like it or not. period." ? To be clear that is what we do now - except now DS puts a red sticker on the book so it appears to others that the book is a book from the "basket" at his designated level so he doesn't get told on or noticed. WE, both DS and I, want to just be able to do this (send in books on his level)legitimately so he doesn't have the constant underlying stress of breaking the rules and basically lying every day.

Also I am concerned about what is he getting instructed on in reading if recognizing his true instructional level is not permitted?

Here are some links you might find helpful...

http://www.thudscave.com/~lamplighter/reading.htm

http://www.csun.edu/~hda75098/BalancedReading/Levels.html

http://em.synergiesprairies.ca/index.php/em/article/download/41/16

This is different then I thought. The accelerated reader program I was referring to was not regular classroom instructed reading. My ds when in 2nd grade was going to 4th for reading and also was in a 4th grade novel group 2 times a week.

I see the difference.

Thanks for the links. I'm going to dig around and try to find more info on the BAS ceiling and why it even exists.

One thing I do know about these guided reading assessments--they are not simple to give and it would take a lot of time to give assessment after assessment to find the right level. Say you start at a Level B or C where you think a first grader should be. And if they pass that level, you go onto the next assessment. If you tested them all the way to a Q or R when they might start struggling, you would be there literally all day. I am actually liking the idea of computerized testing now, which unfortunately doesn't start til second grade. The test adapts itself based on what the child is answering right or wrong. If they answer right it gets harder, if they answer wrong, it gets easier. When they miss a certain number of questions in a row, the test ends. I think DS would do a lot better on that, than being asked to read a story aloud and answer questions like "what is the main idea of this story."

Here in our district we have "coaches" . There is a math coach and a literacy (reading and writing)coach and an intervention coach and so on. They don't have a classroom of their own. These coaches have proved themselves to be master teachers in certain areas of the curriculum. The put on workshops for the teachers, supervise some of the paraprofessionals, observe a teacher with a lesson and provide feedback. But they also can take the outliers and take them and assess them for the teacher.

Here is another clued for the teacher...if you have an outside test that already gives you some sort of reading level or just saw the kid finish the last Harry potter book...don't start him with the test level for the grade he is in....estimate where you think he is and drop down one would be better than wasting time.

You have described NWEA MAP testing. But even then teachers don't follow the RIT scores and where a child should be at. DS should be at a F&P level "U"(according to RIT and Lexile scores) and instead his teacher has him at a RAZ-kids "R" which is f&P "N".

Yes, it's not MAP but something similar. And that test isn't perfect either and I have complained about wildly fluctuating scores. But it can be given in 45 minutes (or in my DD's case more like 2 hours, lol) to all the kids at the same time, it gets something that's (hopefully) at least somewhat close to the right level, and it's done. The problem is the teachers don't seem to use it to plan curriculum for specific kids anyway. They just want to see the scores go up from fall to winter and from winter to spring. Actually, I think the only reason they use it is to catch the kids who are under the 10th percentile or so, because those kids can be pulled out for intervention services.

Okay, so this is rapidly becoming an issue again for us too. DS's teacher told him today that they are not permitted to go above a certain level. That, for example, third graders stay on level "white" for pretty much the entire year. (she specifically said that to him). Hence why she hasn't been testing him or moving him up - because second grade is suppose to get to and stay at level "double red." So, yes my school's policy appears to be one where they cap at a year ahead. Teacher also gave him some crap about how they "have to make sure he is understanding what he is reading." The woodcock johnson testing my son had recently indicate that anything under a reading grade level of 3rd grade would be too easy for him. His WJ-III and a Wiat subtest have his comprehension in the 95th percentile. As it stands now, I have been sending in books for reading. We had an argument in the beginning of the year wherein I took her head off for punishing my son for reading the books I sent in for him at 100 book challenge. She has noticed and she knows that he's again bringing in books that are not "from the basket." She has not punished DS (b/c she knows I will hit the roof if she does) and she has not said anything to me yet but I fear she plans to say something at our upcoming meeting. What can I say to get the message across that I don't care about their "basket rule" and that the WJ-III and Wiat testing I have tell me what level my son is (not her and her 100 book challenge assessment with it's ceiling) and I am sending in books based on that and his interest level whether like they or not. In a relatively nice but firm way. Otherwise, like Blackcat, I fear the obscenities that may come out of my mouth if I don't have a set response.

BY the way, the WJ-III Ach Broad Reading scores put him at a grade equivalent of 3.6. The report says he will "get the most gains by being presented with reading instruction from early 3rd to early 4th grade range" and that "anything under 2.9 will be QUITE EASY form him."

I'm so glad this has never come up for us.

DS' reading levels were so far ahead of his comprehension in the early years, it was ridiculous. He *could* read anything, without having the slightest idea what it meant. The school expressed the occasional dismay about his comprehension levels, but even those were always at least a grade level ahead of where he was, and I just kept pointing out that comprehension comes with reading. You have to be able to read something before you can comprehend it. And of course he couldn't comprehend everything he read, because he could read anything you put in front of him. But he certainly wasn't going to learn to comprehend it if he didn't read it. I said, "well, he could read those things when he was 2, but he didn't comprehend any of it -- see how much he's gained?"

The school here has never put any limits on what a child is allowed to read -- or at least, not my children. DD7 did come home a while back with a book from the school library that she told me "the librarian said this was a 5th grade book." I said, "well, she let you take it, right?" and she said, "yeah". I gathered that there might be one of those things going on, from that comment, but it didn't seem to be a problem.

That's very interesting. I was not given a report, just a copy of his IEP eval which showed the tests, scores and percentiles. I had to ask for grade level equivalents, which were then included. But no test report or anything.

Our meeting was re-scheduled for next week but there is an opening at a different school and I may snatch it up. Then cancel the meeting.

Irena, when I went to visit other schools I talked to one of the prinicipals about the reading level, saying that DS had actually been demoted at his current school. She was completely unconcerned and said that she is passionate about literacy and bascially that she's an "expert". She told me she would never have a child progress that fast through reading. Because the content would be way too advanced. I was dumbstruck and just stared at her, my mouth probably agape. So like you, I want to have a reasonable argument. But how can you argue with idiocy? And literacy "experts"? If a child can pass reading assessments at a higher level, then that shows they can handle the content, right? And surely there are books out there that are not too "mature". It's not like we're going to give them "Forever" by Judy Blume! Level Q on Raz-Kids is fine in terms of content/maturity. There are books that exist that don't have violence, sex, bad language, advanced social situations, etc.

Reading these comments brings back all the bad feelings that I had with my dd's third grade teacher last year (same teacher unfortunately from 1st through 3rd). They used a system to set the students' reading level (DRA?), and when my daughter told her that she could read every word of the three books at the highest level available in class and could she read at a higher level, the teacher responded "Well, the words are more difficult at a higher level and besides, those books are inappropriate for a little kid like you." DD came home crying after school. This was even after I had offered to get appropriate books from the library!!! That was actually the last straw for me and we have since switched schools.

Well that's probably because the school did it. When my DS was given it by the school - no report or analysis accompanied the results. (It makes sense - could you imagine your school recommending that grade level work is going to be too easy for your DS/DD? LOL - they'd rather gauge their eyes out I think!) But this time I took DS to a private tester and she said she would provide scores, interpretation/analysis of scores, and curriculum recommendations based on the scores. And she did. I am pretty happy with it just for my own info. I think my tester had a software program that assisted her with the scoring and the recommendations .. not entirely sure just a hunch. The report was entitled Academic Achievement Evaluation

Yeah, as far as I am concerned if I am sending in the book I have looked at it and decided the content is fine for my DS. Just to give some perspective, my DS's teacher was punishing DS for magic treehouse books so mature content was not her concern.. her concern was her "rule" about 'books must come from her basket.
Some of what I read *to* him can be borderline (not sex but violence/fantasy) but we have talks about it. I feel like that stuff is at my discretion. It really isn't THAT much of an issue (yet)- he is not beyond 4th grade in his reading. What I read *to* him is high school level so that can get dodgey.

Good Advice MON ... Thanks!

You are Lucky Nautigal!

We have been finding plenty of appropriate higher level books! The Ordinary boy series is very good. Treasure Hunters by James Patterson.(definitely higher level reading) George Brown , class clown is a funny serious.. very much 1st and 2nd grade boy humor!

We have been very lucky with the elementary school, all the way. It's beginning to unravel a bit in middle school, but still far better than what a lot of people have.

I'm jealous Nautigal!

As an aside, it turns out that the one and only other identified gifted kid in DS's class also has "attention issues." He's DS's buddy so...

Hmmmmm....

We had an awesome first grade teacher who set the groundwork in place for Matilda to read anything she wanted. She called me in to the classroom for a conference the second month of first grade (my daughter would have been 6 years and one month old) and told me that Matilda had a 98% average on renaissance accelerated reader program! and was testing too frequently... So, to take her up. Way up. She said she only wanted her to test on fifth grade books from then on out. I think I panicked more than her, because not sure of you guys experiences, but when you get to fifth grade level books, some things are taken for granted: like there is no Santa Claus or tooth fairy! We still believed in that. So, I basically read every series she read, first. Then we moved. I had built up her personal library with books leveled at fifth to seventh grade, and she had already tested in a bunch of harry potter books and Roald Dahl, etc before first grade ended. When we went into the new school. They had her AR record to log in and could see her year end average and points. They told me she could read any book there, and she did not have a goal or a limit. She finished up the schools k-5 reading goal her first month there (which sucks cause now she has nothing to aim for and -almost 4 more years of school) and was the youngest student to get honor reader and finish the program, only her first month at the school!

What we are finding now is that the topics she can read sometimes bore her. She isn't interested in anything but sci if and fantasy right now. I got her turned in to Percy Jackson this month, and am hoping she reads that series since I have screened it. But, then what? When I was her age I had a similar issue and read Stephen King. E-gad.

I have often thought of starting a blog for advanced readers who are young, just so other parents would know what series are safe for them. For instance, just skip Fudge by Judy Blume if your k class kid still believes in Santa and the tooth fairy.

And FYI, if you are using accelerated reader, you should know its a crappy program. They determine book levels by a formula that looks at how many words had more than two syllables. So, a complex series like Wrinkle in Time by Madeline Le'Engle is a fourth grade book, and something fluffy and simple like Harry Potter is fifth and sixth grade AR. We actually pulled back Wrinkle in Time from her, because it is such a beautiful series that I wanted to save it for when she and I could discuss all the complex themes together. Also, it's totally closed task and not sure how comprehension plays in. It's not understanding the literature, it's the ability to parrot back what you read. Matilda has good recall, so she has never made below an 80 on a book and her average stays around 95. If a child has consistently low scores, they either skipped passages or day dreamed. It's very straight forward and multiple choice.

I agree that Wrinkle in Time is sophisticated indeed (DD read the first book in grade 2 and I realized it was too early--she hasn't yet read the rest) but IDK if Harry POtter is "fluffy and simple" in the later installments.

I think your blog sounds like a great idea! We run into similar issues here. Action-packed, non-ruminative fantasy without a lot of internal pondering works best for DS5, though he also enjoys funny stories like Blume (same issue here with Fudge and Santa!)

To get back on topic, these stories are making my hair stand on end. Are you all saying that your kids are not allowed to read what they want during FREE reading? This is for times when they are just supposed to be reading SOMEthing--not during reading groups or whatever?

As a counterpoint, my kids have never been disallowed any books or asked to keep to one area, and have always been allowed to bring books from home as well. This was the case at both schools DD attended. We did have to ask DS's K teacher to make sure he could check out books from the whole school library (normally they have a "K area") which she did, and he can.

(This is not to say there have always been appropriate books in the classroom. There were not in DD's K and 1 classroom or in DS's K classroom, but I would hardly expect most K classrooms to have a lot of chapter books lying around. Both teachers made efforts to get some appropriate books into the rooms for my kids, and told me to send in whatever I wanted. Heck, DS's private PRE-K teacher gave us permission to check out books from the school library to have in the classroom for him.)

Ultra, I was told that my kids could not get library clearance into certain areas or even take AR tests on books without proven literacy. So, I just started my own library. My daughter memorized her AR log in and just started testing on her own books. Her teacher got weekly updates, and went and gave her clearance in the library to move beyond k-2... Which, by the way, has been useless. My daughter gets overwhelmed and brings home the biggest bunch of crud that I know she won't read, LOL.

She read a lot of fluff in k class. Rainbow magic fairy (same, AR is fifth grade in some of that, and its so fluffy), all the magic treehouse, all the junie b jones. She read harry potter (the first one) right before she turned 6. And yes, she stopped after goblets of fire. She was a little troubled by Cedric dying. So, I turned her on to percy Jackson, which is not as "deep" as the latter harry potter. But the first one is way fluffy compared to wrinkle in time in theme and content. By the way, your k class son might like the Charlie Bone books. They are like a gentle version of the Harry potter series, and they stay on the same level (fourth grade, ten points each) all eight books, where as potter grew up with the reader.

The Harry Potter books past book two are NOT fluffy and simple. They are MUCH more complicated than the Percy Jackson Books. In my opinion the first Percy Jackson was good, the 2nd meh and they went downhill from there. JKR quite deliberately aged each book up to grow with her audience unlike most authors, and the later part of the series have quite complex and adult themes. You really can't use the AR level to judge the complexity of the themes.

If she likes Harry Potter, go check out Diana Wynne Jones's kids books. (She writes adult novels as well.) I think she is a better author, her "worlds" hold together better than the HP world. And are less dark and more fun. I am particularly found of her "Chrestomanci" series. http://www.goodreads.com/series/43763-chrestomanci

As for the subject, we had this problem a bit in K/1st. But as there was very little free time in K, most of his reading was done at home anyway. But when the kids went to the library they were expected to pick out ONE book for their reading level, and any other except they encouraged they only pick from the picture books. What I did that helped was I volunteered during library time, and then I ended up with a bit more say/credence with the librarian.

Yep. Thank you for being shocked. Seriously because sometimes I feel like I am the only one who finds this practice insane!

Oh, I think harry potter and percy Jackson are both fluffy. No slam on Harry, more of a slam on AR.

I did want her to read Percy Jackson because there are surprisingly few books in the genre she likes that are first person narration. We went through her books over winter break trying to find some, as we were discussing the differences and why an author would pick a different narration style, and couldn't find any examples.

We have Chrestomanci on the TBR pile. It sounds awesome.

Yeah, those accursed Rainbow Magic books have bizarrely high reading levels. All the leveling systems are really flawed, IMO. I mean, of course they are--they're done by a computer. The day I learned that Beloved by Toni Morrison is 5th grade Lexile is the day I gave up on this whole leveling concept.

"Here, sweetie. Now that you're done with Fluffkins the Kitty Fairy, how about some Morrison?"

Oh my gosh "beloved" is a great book but so very disturbing. I read it as an adult and it still bothers me.

Right.

I threw it out the day that the Lexile "book selector" tool told me that some Flaubert would be around right for my then-8yo.

:hair-on-fire:

We've never restricted DD's books, just not provided some things at some times-- and thanks to not sending her into a classroom environment which did, she's never really regarded books as anything but "books." She finds this entire concept alien. My DH and I were both "restricted" by well-meaning librarians as children.

Have to agree that just reading the words on the page and understanding the literal narrative arc is a way different thing than "understanding" some books-- and L'Engle and HP come to mind right away there. Percy Jackson is pretty literal and WYSIWYG.

We found that going into older series was helpful for increasing literacy level without also increasing age-level in the topical material.

Kids who like funny material may like Patrick MacManus. My fantasy-loving DD is a huge fan of his stuff. She also liked Redwall (and happily there are a LOT of those books).

M loves the rainbow magic books, too. But, she loves all books. She got "stuck" reading George macdonald "the princess and the goblin" last year (age 6). It was taking her ages to read it. I asked her one night what was going on and she said "I don't know. It feels like a long book" and I told her that it was actually shorter than what she had been reading. She paused for a bit and said "is it possible that I don't like this book? I mean, that's never happened before, I love all books... But maybe I don't like it?" She seemed traumatized to acknowledge it. So, she reads some books to feed her brain, and some books to feed her soul. This also meant that some popular fiction does not enter this house, because she will read whatever she picks up. Ahem. No Fifty Shades here!

+1

Oh my goodness, George Macdonald was one of my DD's favorites at 6. So funny-- different tastes in different kids. She loved The Princess and the Goblin and The Golden Key both.

Howler, I LOVED IT, too! She did like "daddy long legs" though, so it's not because it was an older book, I guess she just didn't actually like it. Hmmmm.

Loved Daddy Long legs!

This concept of keeping children away from more difficult books seems so bizarre. I grew up in a home full of books and can't recall being restricted there, at school or in the town library, save for some books with quite mature content. (I wiggled around that some at home and am still slightly scarred by reading some book about nuns being killed in the Congo, probably at about age 10.) No one seemed to care that I might want books ahead of my grade level. The notion that teachers or librarians think they need to restrict something because it might be too hard seems like they are heading out on a fool's errand.

Ditto

Agreed.

I mean, sure-- the Cheever short story anthology was probably a bit much at 12. Similarly murder mysteries at 8 or 9. But this might explain why I didn't blink when DD wanted to read Mary McGarry Morris tomes at 12 and 13. I figure if she's having trouble with it, she'll stop reading. :shrug: Or talk to me about it (which she has done).

My daughter told me in third grade that they weren't allowed to get books "this thick" (with a hand gesture showing a thickness of about a standard chapter book). I asked the librarian about it in disbelief and she assured me it was true because "otherwise they all want to read vampire books that are completely inappropriate."

We were able to get a special exemption because I promised to monitor the books (although she monitors well herself and doesn't want to read anything she thinks will be too upsetting).

Our challenge this year has been that she kept saying she didn't know where the higher level books were and the school saying that she did. It turns out no one had realized they were completely above her height and eye level even with the tallest ladder. The only solution has been having me go there after school to read off titles to her.

Having worked with this Lexile system in elementary school for both my kids. The gifted one, and my older DD who has a reading LD and was reading below grade level. The Lexile system is ONE way of judging reading level and based most on how hard a book is going to be to decode. In my opinion it stops being useful about the 4/5th grade reading level.

The school my kids attended in young elementary, is a K-8 school. They didn't restrict free reading. I never heard of a problem with a parent sending in a child with a free reading book. But they did restrict what part of the library the kids could select books to borrow. This was partly due to a supervision situation. The library was a mixed library, media center, hallway, and is quite a large open space. (Even through the move to a new school building.) This was often solved by having a volunteer parent around during library time.

Well, I informed DS's teacher that I would be sending in books for him to read at independent reading time and that I do not want him punished for that. I said he shouldn't have to choose between "obeying" or engaging his mind and learning and that he should be able to read challenging books that he enjoys at independent reading time. She responded that we would discuss at our upcoming meeting. As far as I am concerned the discussion is over. I am sending in books with him to read at independent reading time whether they like it or not. I mean, really, this is nuts ...this doen't take any school resources (if anything it contibutes) and it's obviously beneficial to DS academically as well as in other ways. What morons.