Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Free tuition at US public Universities?

If you can't pass engineering courses, you fail out.

I don't think that there is currently any problem with American engineering schools and standards, admission or otherwise, unless someone has some data that shows the opposite.

I think that a problem with engineering schools is that they teach anti-cooperation, which companies who hire them find unhelpful.

It only becomes a problem when the answer to "Can I pay for it?" is a resounding "NO!" by an fast-growing pool of well-qualified individuals.

I do find it interesting that your main concern is, "Can I pay for it?" rather than, "Why should I pay to subsidize outrageous sports programs, unnecessary new construction, frivolous amenities, and tuition discounts for wealthy high-achievers, none of which serve the basic mission of the thing I'm actually paying for?"

I understand from your POV people are distorting the truth. Okay, facts, if that's what you wish I'm happy to oblige. In the U.S.:

Average credit card debt: $15,270
Average mortgage debt: $149,925
Average student loan debt: $32,258

Total nonbusiness bankruptcy filings in 2012: 1.18 million
Total business bankruptcy filings in 2012: 40,075

If that's not people getting things they can't yet afford I don't know how else I can possibly convince you.

Are we certain that's *not* the basic mission of the institution these days?

Many people seem to have decided that the "college experience" is the goal.

I'd be happy to discuss those too when the subject matter switches to them.

You realize that all of that credit was poofed into existence from nothing in the first place, right?

Which thread are you reading?

While I normally enjoy the conversations in this forum, I don't feel that discussing this subject matter any further will yield anything positive. I come from a background where you get what you pay for and you should expect nothing more except by the grace of God. I'll continue to teach my family the same. You're free to teach your family otherwise.

Thanks for for sharing your points of view and I'll look forward to discussions on other subject matters.

I don't think tax money should be used to make college entirely free for students or their families. OTOH, each of my children currently have six-figure 529 college savings plans not because they "earned" them but because they have affluent parents who have chosen to fund those accounts. You don't want to make college tuition so steeply progressive and need-based that it becomes pointless for parents to save and for 2nd earners of couples to work. But it should also be possible for qualified students from poor families to attend college, partly through loans. The question is how to strike the right balance between those objectives.

Isn't that what happens in all courses? If not then I'm starting to understand.

lol, Having gone through Engineering (though not in the U.S.) I think most of us had to cooperate at some point in order to survive. We figured that was part of their strategy - you either had to be an PG+ or be able to work with others (which meant you had to be smart enough to bring something to the trade).

Back to the main topic. I'm in Canada, I can't imagine paying the tuition rates that are paid in the States. It isn't free here but it is still possible for many without becoming insanely in debt. Entrance requirements are reasonably high out of high school. There are lots of scholarships available and most of the top of the class are going for free or close to it. Even full price it is a fraction of what you pay. Then again we don't have fancy foot ball stadiums and sports programs (although you don't really need much when you have 50 fans instead of 50,000).