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    Cost for Feds to support it

    And if the rigor were stepped up and the fluff courses dropped it would be even cheaper...


    Become what you are
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    This article ignores basic economics. If tuition were "free", (being paid by someone else in other words), the demand for college would increase dramatically and so would the costs.


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    Originally Posted by mithawk
    This article ignores basic economics. If tuition were "free", (being paid by someone else in other words), the demand for college would increase dramatically and so would the costs.
    You fix that by setting entry standards appropriately. Works OK here.

    When I went to university, in England in the 80s, not only did I not pay fees but there was a maintenance grant (although well-off parents were supposed to make a contribution to that). Fewer people went to university then than now; it was competitive. One effect was that students felt an obligation to work hard not only because it was in their interests (which as always it was) but also because the taxpayer was paying. One was, in effect, employed by the state, albeit at a subsistence rate. Today's students often have difficulty reconciling "I'm paying for this so I'm entitled..." with "in order to learn I'm obliged...".


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    Might be good if they set standards, as noted above by ColinsMum. In fact, some public universities already offer free full tuition for good students. Take these two for example:

    http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html

    http://admissions.temple.edu/sites/...88_1213_scholarship_info_sheet_FINAL.pdf

    I wish that all public institutions (or at least more) would offer free tuition for SATs of 1400+ or ACTs of 32+. Maybe my kid would have gone to a public college and would have saved us a bundle.

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    I generally agree with your point ColinsMum that having high standards is one good way to control demand. Despite that, didn't the UK recently allow tuition fees of 9000 pounds per year?

    Last edited by mithawk; 01/04/14 11:24 AM.
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    Originally Posted by mithawk
    I generally agree with your point ColinsMum that having high standards is one good way to control demand. Despite that, didn't the UK recently allow tuition fees of 9000 pounds per year?
    Here=Scotland; different system from England, as education is a devolved matter. Scottish students studying in Scotland do not pay fees. By a quirk of EU law, neither do EU-but-not-UK students studying here, but rUK (rest of UK, i.e. not Scotland) students studying here do!


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    Our costs (NZ) are steadily increasing but still cheap by world standards and there are interest free loans and allowances for poorer students (for a limited period). But really there are too dormant people going to university so now you need a degree to do things that really don't require it and don't pay enough to justify one. For something that used to require a degree you now practically need a PhD. People are expected to study or work after leaving school and with fewer jobs more people study appropriate or not. And there are some courses you can get loans for that traditionally done while working (diving and aviation for a start) and have high fees.

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    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    Originally Posted by mithawk
    This article ignores basic economics. If tuition were "free", (being paid by someone else in other words), the demand for college would increase dramatically and so would the costs.
    You fix that by setting entry standards appropriately. Works OK here.

    When I went to university, in England in the 80s, not only did I not pay fees but there was a maintenance grant (although well-off parents were supposed to make a contribution to that). Fewer people went to university then than now; it was competitive. One effect was that students felt an obligation to work hard not only because it was in their interests (which as always it was) but also because the taxpayer was paying. One was, in effect, employed by the state, albeit at a subsistence rate. Today's students often have difficulty reconciling "I'm paying for this so I'm entitled..." with "in order to learn I'm obliged...".

    I concur wholeheartedly.

    I wish that more schools WOULD 'comp' students whose combined profile places them at "highly likely to graduate" because the pricing in the US is now at a point where a good many of those students are being forced to sign on to a life of basically debt servitude to ATTEND college.

    The "best bargains" in higher ed now-- setting income levels aside momentarily and just looking at sticker pricing-- are often 10-20K annually. That is resident tuition and very bare-bones living expenses.

    People who are at/above the federal poverty line do not get much help meeting those expenses outside of need-based scholarships, and the majority of THOSE are small dollar values-- $500 here, $1000 there, and often non-renewable, so each year is another round of stressfully cobbling together monies.

    My family is NOT wealthy by any means, and our "estimated EFC" is between 16K and 30K annually, depending upon the institution's own calculations. Realistically, we can afford to write checks nearly up to that lower boundary-- by being very careful indeed and paring expenses. But there's simply no feasible way that we COULD come up with 30K a year without selling our house.

    Okay, so assuming that a college costs 50K annually...

    that's a gap of at least 20K (assuming that we COULD write a check for 30K). DD doesn't qualify for a Pell grant, barely qualifies for work-study (say, $1000), and then there is another $5500 in subsidized student loans annually. The rest? UNSECURED debt, either hers or ours.

    It's fairly grim, honestly. If you aren't a low-income household living in a low-cost-of-living area, or a VERY high income one (top 2%), this is a serious problem.

    We estimate our out of pocket cost for DD to attend undergrad at one of the nation's "best buy" public universities is going to run about 30K, unless she gets lucky and pulls in a 4y renewable "presidential" full-tuition, merit-based scholarship-- the institution offers about 60 of those a year to the top students in their incoming class of 4000 students. We estimate her odds of that are about 25-40%.

    And she will be living at home. We've got something close to that amount saved for this purpose-- which places us in a much better position than many families of similar income and SES.


    There's simply no way that we COULD cover the costs of a place like HMC or MIT without debt (unacceptable to us personally) or a second working parent (which was the plan).




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    I went to the University in Czech Republic. There's no tuition for public universities. They are very competitive and only the best get into those. There's no "general studies" type of classes in college. You go study your major. General studies are done in high school. No reason to repeat them in college. You don't go get an undergraduate degree and then apply for law school, medical school, vet school, etc. You go to those directly from high school based on your entrance exams and your grades. You go to college with serious knowledge already acquired and you build on it. Those who are not good enough to get into the public university can chose a private and pay for it. Great system! Wish we had it here in the US!

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    Mk13, I did my undergrad in my home country in Asia. And it is the same there. Only the best get into public schools. The rest have to pay to go to a private institution. My total costs (fee, lodging, all expenses) for 5-year undergrad was 3 months of my dad's salary ( and we are a lower middle class family) so he paid for it and I graduated debt free. Came to the US for graduate study with full assistantship. Graduated with $2000 in my pocket and a well paying job. Now I am saving as much as I can so dd can get the same benefits I did.

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