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    Honestly, how far out of level does her "leisure" activity suggest that she is, at this point?

    I hardly see any point to a single skip if that answer is "many years."

    Have you offered to let your DD try a community education class in a topic that interests her? One route into community college classes is to sign up for a side-by-side one (music appreciation, drawing, etc) with a parent for a time or two, just enough to build some credibility that your child belongs in the environment just fine-- and then see if they'll allow her to start soloing, or taking for-credit classes.

    Have you investigated virtual schooling? That might allow her to accelerate up to her level without so much worry over possible gaps in a two or three year skip.

    It would also remove her from the interpersonal situation which is toxic (no matter what you call it).

    My DD was about this age when her existential angst started to truly flower into depression-- they see how ill-fitting the world they live in is, and they also see just how long they will be "waiting" for something better. While 4-8 years doesn't seem like so much TO ME, I'm in my late forties... to a ten year old, that is a very (impossibly, really) long time.



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    This does not sound like an introverted kid, that does well with homeschooling. She sounds like she is out there, and missed a couple of years of interaction and there are going to be some "conflict". We moved countries and I have seen some "conflicts" that I may regard as bullying because my kid is being intimidated but it also the other kid just isn't nice. And my kid has to find her tribe. Which she has.
    I also think that you have figure out a challenging work environment. My kid turned 9 in grade 4 without a grade skip. She does accelerated online math, she takes extracurricular Mandarin and is a student at the National ballet school. She has to learn good habits because she can be very disorganized and take the easy path. Some kids will and those are those gifties that end up with no options in life. Especially the visual spatial. They are messy, disorganized and if they do not learn to manage, they will lose jobs and chances at opportunities.

    One of the things you learn on this site, all our kids are smart but very different. You have to figure out your kid and what options are available. But it is also the age of the internet so there are many options available. It also means added work for you. If you had a kid with disabilities, it would be a lot more work for the rest of your life. This is more short lived but necessary if you want your life to optimize. And that is what it is all about. Optimization of that cool brain they got. Some have a great V8 that runs with standard maintenance and then you have those bloody Ferrari V12's that require their own mechanics. I have the Italian model. She is worth it but I have no life.


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    I love that, Wren.

    The nice thing is that everyone here has a kid that is somewhere in the Lamborghini/Ferrari line. Well, some have the less-flambouyant but still highly tempermental German or English sports cars. Those would be the introverted sort. LOL.

    One thing that we found with virtual schooling-- well, two things, actually, the latter being a critical consideration for those whose children are either extreme extraverts or introverts:

    1. The often demanding curriculum takes as long as it takes. What this means is that there is almost no "wasted" time spent waiting on classmates. More time for extracurricular exploration which can be whatever family, finances, and the world-at-large will bear. This is a lifesaver for kids who NEED more than almost any school can realistically give them.

    2. Limited peer-to-peer interactions mean that bullying, etc. is just about non-existent, at least in school. On the other hand, you will have to provide appropriate social interaction outside of "school" for extraverts who need more of it than the model will support. However, see number 1; the good news is that you have a lot more ROOM in your lives to pursue healthy interactions with true peers who have things in common by virtue of shared interests.


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    Originally Posted by Reba
    Okay, I am not writing all this to brag.

    You never have to worry about that here smile This is a safe place to speak candidly about your child's level without being misunderstood.

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    Whew! Thanks everyone for all the wonderful advice. Sorry I haven't posted earlier, the daughter I am talking about just finished a long theater run. Well, tonight she is already crying, again, about going to school. Yes, she was certainly bullied. Yes, we were mad the school just called it a conflict. Yes, she is a really social kid, very outgoing, very extroverted. I was 100% into homeschooling. She was begging me to go back to school (I homeschooled her for second grade and most of third). She loved it at first, loved the friends that she could see every minute of every day. But, that got old, fast. She keeps begging me, saying how much she hates it. The problem is, towards the end of the second year of homeschooling, she only wanted to do what she wanted to do. I was pulling my hair out. It seemed like it was almost a wasted year.
    Okay, I need to spend the next few days listening to her feelings, I am nervous, if I pull her, will she just go back to her old ways, or miss school and friends and want back in school within a few weeks. She is certainly our "intense" child. This intensity is such a blessing in some ways, and a curse in others. Right now, I can see she is going to go through her "post-show depression". She is already so good at acting because she pours all that she has into it, plus she memorizes everything so fast. Ugh. Lots of thinking to do.
    Thanks all. I will go back and try and answer more specifically later - we are tired from her show.

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    Okay, now that even the pediatrician is telling me she can't stay in the same school, and in my heart I know this, we are seriously looking at switching her to a private school. She will have to be accepted there, and has to shadow next week, so I need to figure out what to do in the meantime. There may be a week of "flux". I might just homeschool her those days, help her get settled again, love her lots, and cherish her. I am sick and tired of how the public school labeled her a "difficult, stubborn, strong willed child" and put in her in a little box. First off, she was bored, secondly, she got bullied, thirdly the school first told her she could sit in the office and read all day until she felt "brave" enough to go to class. Then when they realized that she literally would read all day and never go to class, they tried to force her to go, physically. Then she lost it, but only then. This public school is doing fine for my 8 year old dd, but she learns more traditionally, has lots of close friends, etc. I have come to realize we can't "make or mold" our dd to fit into the school, she will just become depressed and probably do horrible in school. Any advice? Anything?

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    Wow - Master of None - you hit it on the head! Yes, very intense child. Does love to learn and loves to go really deep, but, if it is something she isn't that interested in, then, she gets the "I don't care" attitude. I saw this in homeschool, and the public school saw it too. We have been trying to teach her that even as adults we sometimes have to do things we don't love, but we just do it. I have been learning so much about her this last year. I just want her to flourish and reach her potential, and alas, we have finally come to the conclusion, it isn't going to happen in public school, dang. The psych that did her eval a year ago, told us this, now we see it. I am hoping the new private school, that does allow kids to go really deep, and meet each child at their level (1:9 ratio), goes better, but we will see. I love the contract idea, that is going to get drafted tonight. How did you best learn to help your child? Was it through trial and error, through books giving you advice and the aha moment?

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    My only additional advice is to remain agile enough to the possibility that the new situation won't be a good-enough fit, either.

    Honestly, with my own DD14, the years between age 9 and 12 were the worst.

    Her asynchrony seemed to be at its zenith (or is that "nadir" LOL) during those years-- developmentally she was ALL over the map, and uneven even on a day-by-day basis. It was dizzying. She wanted to talk about black holes, subatomic particles, and time travel in one moment, and was throwing a sulky fit because she couldn't tie her shoes right in the next, then ten minutes later, was back to solving world problems and psychoanalyzing political figures.

    NO WAY did any 'school' setting fit that profile, or even come close to nurturing it.

    We eventually came to understand our role as a BUFFER between the abrasion produced by a "school system" that would/could never fit her needs, and our child who was struggling to fit into a space that really COULD not be nurturing to her in light of her own needs/ability.

    There were bright spots, and I will say that keeping her in "school" through high school has taught her perseverance, (which perfectionists like her SORELY need to learn, particularly with mundane/boring tasks) and she has had a chance to experience some things which will allow her common social currency as an adult. Those were factors in our very deliberate consideration of whether or not the educational options available would be more beneficial/harmful to her. That's a real set of considerations with a child like this-- one who is SO thirsty for what they need intellectually, and SO out of synch with agemates and even intellectual settings that could give them what they need. A college campus was not going to be a good idea for a child who couldn't independently tie her own shoes or manage lunch on her own at nine, nevermind construct a reasonably coherent paragraph expressing her opinion on a reading selection/current event. Oh, she could TELL a group of adults about that opinion, and defend it quite handily, but putting it into a written form was another matter entirely.

    KWIM?

    I found my own epiphany on this subject to be deeply personal and highly idiosyncratic. I got there by quieting my own frenzy to consume data-data-data (by reading parenting books and expert opinions, etc. etc.), and once I'd passed through that data-acquisition phase, coming to terms with what "fit" my daughter, what didn't (and there was a LOT of that), and what was simply unknown because there are no expert opinions about "children like this" because there are not enough of them to make a good statistical sample for study.

    They are all singularities when they are PG.

    That was the moment for me personally. My DH and I had to admit that nobody could tell us the "right" thing. NOBODY. Because we knew more than anyone else what that meant, and if we didn't know, well... no sense looking for "the answer." It meant being quiet (in a spiritual kind of sense) and looking with unbiased eyes and love at the child we have.

    I can't do that for anyone else's child. Only a loving parent can do it, I think.

    I will warn you that this epiphany was borne of a LOT of anguish and distress, and a lot of very unpleasant soul-searching. It meant facing down some of the least pleasant/functional aspects of my own personality and my DH's. Sturm und drang, for sure.

    It meant (for us) leaving the map entirely and figuring out what DD needed, and doing our level best to maximize that while minimizing damage to her.

    Least-worst decision-making at its finest. Sadly, this is still HIGHLY imperfect with children who are very far from being like other human beings-- and PG children like this are very far from being like other people, and in many cases, far even from being very "like" other PG children, since they are all such singular people. You have to internalize that before you can let go of advice that is useless to you (though it might be evidence-based, and even quite GOOD advice for most children).

    Does that help?





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    HowlerKarma - thanks so much. Yes, I feel I have done so much soul searching to really "know" what to do. My husband and I will never really know if we made the right choice, but I have to do what my heart is telling me. I know there is no perfect fit, and trying to guess at what is the closest fit is hard. But yes, I need to look closer at the perfectionism aspect, and keep that in touch too.


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    I'm so sorry the school went back on their word after offering that your daughter could sit in the office until she was ready to go to class. It seems the situation called for a gentler approach and things got off to a rocky start? frown
    Quote
    Yes, very intense child. Does love to learn and loves to go really deep, but, if it is something she isn't that interested in, then, she gets the "I don't care" attitude. I saw this in homeschool, and the public school saw it too.
    Might the common ground of what a parent experienced in homeschool and the public school saw in their academic setting as well, open a possibility for discussion, collaboration, and teamwork with a school? A child who is seen as only doing what they want to do in one setting and seen as strong-willed in another may be consistent in those behaviors, exhibiting them in a new school as well?

    The behavior contract mentioned by mon sounds like a great idea. The book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children gives some helpful tips about successfully creating/enforcing behavioral contracts with gifted children. This book also walks parents through much of what another poster described
    Quote
    ... looking with unbiased eyes and love at the child we have.
    Books tend not to give pat answers, but encourage parents to consider a broad and often challenging array of viewpoints and possibilities.

    While books may not work for everyone, many families find them helpful in that the extensive examples provided may help a parent prepare to anticipate a situation and recognize what may be occurring, rather than reacting/responding to a situation after the fact. Several parenting and advocacy books also offer thoughts as to what a family may wish to discuss proactively with a school in helping to assess "fit".

    If there is childhood perfectionism or anxiety, there are books which show readers how to free themselves from thought patterns which may not be serving them well. smile While insightful, these books are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging. Parents may wish to pre-read and decide if a resource may be a helpful tool for their child.

    Others have mentioned possible grade acceleration, have you considered that?

    Wishing you, your family, and your daughter all the best with this. smile

    PS:
    Does your daughter enjoy socializing with the other children from the theatre? Might friendships with her theatre friends help ease a school situation (arranging play dates, learning from friends' parents of other possible schools to consider, helping as an outlet if there is a return to homeschooling)?

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