Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Ambition and the college selectivity premium

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2013/12/ambition.html
Ambition
by Bryan Caplan
EconLog
December 11, 2013
This study suggests that controlling for high school academic achievement and the fact that one has applied to selective school X, getting into X does not affect earnings much.

Fascinating! Thank you for posting this interesting study and analysis. I will be reading this again and continue to think about it. How College Affects Students (2005) analyzes many studies by S. Dale & A Krueger but in controlling for what appears to be a host of pre-college attributes did not seem to hone in on "ambition" in the studies discussed and reviewed at that time.

I'm enjoying thinking about the study and the analysis of it. Not one to shy away from what may be seen as playing "devil's advocate", I wonder...

On the one hand, using "ambition" as a proxy for healthy self-esteem (neither self-deprecating nor arrogant, but internally motivated) and grit... one who applies to a highly selective college may challenge him/herself that they can they face the fear of rejection. Stats on highly selective college websites indicate the majority of applicants are not accepted/admitted. Those whose ambition spurs them to apply may have a growth mindset through which they know they will learn something by simply having applied regardless the outcome. For others simply NOT applying may be indicative of a fear of rejection, akin to perfectionism/procrastination and fixed mindset of why try when I might fail (recently discussed on other threads).

On the other hand, does it take more than "ambition" to apply to selective schools? For example, might a person known to be ambitious, self-directed, and internally motivated, with a track record or portfolio of resilience, service, persistence, and ultimate triumph (setbacks which have been overcome, others' burdens which have been alleviated) possibly face other dilemmas such as how to pay for higher tuition? Being altruistic and motivated to continue making the world a better place, undaunted by setbacks, is a form of ambition which is not necessarily lucrative or financially rewarding. (For example, a kiddo who could be the poster child for self-transcendence as described in the book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children, page 71, Level 8)

Might "ambition" in some cases translate into finding what might be the best fit (or least-worst fit) for an interrelated set of circumstances in one's life?

Hopefully the "ambition" in the study is not a proxy for confidence derived from one knowing one is attractive to the school because their family has a strong ability to pay tuition, assist with endowment/funding, build a new wing or department, etc.
ETA: The article shows that ambition was meant in the context of the "young adult's character". That is, indeed, good news.

A bit OT:

I must say, I'm rather tired of seeing studies that presume that income is the final measure of whether students succeeded, and therefore of an instutition's worth. By this measure, a student who got a BA in [Insert Gut Major Here] and then went on to make a lot of money doing something unrelated in daddy's firm is a glorious reflection on the value of the school, whereas my spouse, who has an advanced degree but works in public service in an undercompensated field (however, he would never have gotten his job without that degree) is presumably something of a discredit to the worth of his two graduating institutions.

Agreed.

"Ambition" is also often confused with "selfishness."

Looking at the table in the post I cited, one of the variables used to predict earnings is "predicted parental income". The number of colleges applied to and the average SAT score of schools applied to has predictive power beyond parental income.

DH incurred no debt from grad school at all (his degree is in science, and everything was covered). He did incur debt from undergrad, but it was long enough ago (and he had scholarships and fin aid) that it was not a big deal.

My own alma mater ranks pretty highly in terms of selectivity but is also considered a "bad bargain" because so many of its graduates choose to enter the arts, social sciences, nonprofits, etc. It was recently named somewhere as one of the worst deals in higher education because of this (it is a private liberal arts school). I acknowledge that it's a very pricey college, (like all private liberal arts schools, pretty much) and I wouldn't recommend going into major debt to go there and then becoming a Brooklyn performance artist/barista. But I also take issue with this line of thinking when applied too broadly. My friends who are social workers, writers, musicians, and nonprofit workers are not failures because they don't make 6 figures. To the contrary, they absolutely represent the inquisitive, community-focused spirit of the school. I do worry about the school's graduates of today who likely have the same dreams, but larger debt loads.

Something is rotten in Denmark with this whole business.

Thank you for pointing this out, I appreciate the correction. I will look at this again. LOL, unfortunately sometimes life gets in the way, making time short for indulging/immersing in new thoughts and studies I'm exploring.

Hopefully others will also read and review the study, rather than depending upon the thoughts which one or two of us may have while still digesting it.

ETA: Yes, the article states that ambition was meant in the context of the "young adult's character". That is, indeed, good news.

Different philosophers have observed and contemplated the various uses of education in societies... both "education for education" which is often related to personal and intellectual freedom, and education for career development which has historically been related to teaching limited information needed for accomplishment of specifically assigned tasks. Philosophy courses still teach a variety of viewpoints and challenge students to consider the role(s) of education which they may observe in their corner of the world. The line between education for the mind's sake and education for task performance may have become blurred and somewhat indistinct due in part to changes which increase access to education of the mind (for example child labor laws, books, free public libraries, second-hand markets for books, radio, television, computer technology, transparent government with open meetings) and the development of societies and economies in which individuals may work at different jobs, enjoy the benefits of their efforts, and may have upward social mobility. Many people in the USA are educated (formally or self-taught as life-long learners) and exercise intellectual freedom while also working in a role in which their job may have constraints or parameters dictated by others. Meanwhile there are competing forces: practices which may work against the expansion of educating minds for intellectual independence include censorship, one-size-fits-all-education, and in some cases accreditation and credentialing which may tend to discredit fabulous paths of self-education while acknowledging a potentially narrow or limited path of prescribed learning dictated by those in power and control. For a quick overview of philosophies of education, the Wikipedia page may be of interest. Taking a Socratic view: What do your observations about education tell you about the direction of the society in which you live?

There are many studies along these lines. One may find several analyzed in the book How College Affects Students (2005) Pascarella & Terenzini. Consisting of over 800 pages, it includes a Summary of 100 pages and its list of references spans 140 pages.