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    Joined: Mar 2012
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    LouDD Offline OP
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    Hello

    Help.. !

    So confused...

    Our 7 yr old was just tested as gifted but very slow processing.. like VERY slow.. his GIA was severely compromised bc of his processing score... but the Ed Psych still said he was a perfect candidate for ODS due to his reasoning score.

    The difference between his highest score and lowest was 49 points ! that's 3 SD isn't it ?

    Should we take him to a psych to test for Dyspraxia or (inattentive) ADD?

    What are some other causes of slow processing speed?

    Someone told me that it is bc they are simply thinking too many things over at once when gifted! That an answer isn't as simple as black and white so they literally have too much info going on?

    What can I do to help him ? the huge difference is a worry.

    We also have another HG older son.. but his processing is in the 99.8th percentile.. so this is all new to us.. and very scary ! I want to do what is right for him.. but also know that telling the school to focus on his (dis) ability will simply make him MORE bored and disillusioned with school frown

    The Ed Psych did little in her recommendations to help except tell us to give him cards with pictures to get him used to a routine in the morning ! which he doesn't need.. he is no different to any other child in terms of routine or getting out the door or following instructions... he simply takes longer to process academic info or questions... he is perfectly able in all other areas of attention and focus... he can sit and do a 100 piece puzzle till its finished etc ... spend ages looking up the theory of evolution of animals.. or watching a documentary...

    Please help ! and thank you !

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    We had this too. There are many threads on this forum about this. We decided not to worry about it, but I'm sure you'll soon receive a variety of advice about this.

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    DD has almost a 60 point gap between processing speed and perceptual reasoning. If you calculate extended norms, coding was an 8 and matrix reasoning was a 22.
    She has ADHD which I think explains most of it in her case.She can also be perfectionistic and will refuse to move on until she knows she has the right answer. The psych who assessed her also said that she is probably a visual-spatial thinker because of her high perceptual reasoning (around 150) and kids who think in images tend to have problems with processing speed because they have to convert back and forth between pictures and words in their minds.
    DD seems to be really slow with writing so I'm taking her in for an ocupational therapy assessment to make sure we're not missing something in terms of problems writing or hand-eye coordination.
    She just turned 8 and is currently knitting a scarf, so I doubt anything will turn up with that eval, but I just want to have it and rule it out as an issue.

    DS also had low processing speed, but at 109 it wasn't as bad. In his case, he has obvious fine motor issues (dyspraxia).

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    My DS7 was tested for ADD-I at the school's insistence. He isn't ADD but he is gifted with very low processing speed (9%tile). I don't know if our tester specifically looked for and ruled out dyspraxia but from what I know of it I don't think it fits my DS.

    We told DS (in broad strokes) and we shared the full results with the school. They wrote up an IEP with accommodations. Between DS realizing that his challenges with writing weren't because he was stupid and the school allowing the use of a scribe when needed it made a huge improvement in his behaviour and enthusiasm about school. The other improvement was that the teacher realized that giving the class 10 steps of instructions and then telling them to go wasn't going to work with him and it wasn't because he was being an obnoxious brat. She seemed to have more patience with him after the results.

    This year he has a much stronger teacher and he is doing better. They haven't had to use any of the accommodations and his writing has improved drastically. He still has some signs but he is getting better at coping and at least blending with his classmates. He is less frustrated and angry which is nice. His gifted side is starting to come through more at school and his grades have improved which he is really proud of.

    Throughout all of this he has always had an insane ability to focus on things that he wanted to focus on. He's slowly getting better at focusing on things that other people want him to focus on which is helping school run a lot smoother.

    YMMV. Good luck!

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    My PG son has a 40 point gap between his PRI, VCI and processing speed. It's not really an issue. I think the way it manifests is, he takes longer than expected to do his homework (part of it is perfectionism issues), and he sometimes stumbles on words-- has trouble with retrieval-- when he's excited to talk about something. There's a bottleneck of words trying to get out. Other than that, we haven't seen any problems.

    Is your son having problems of some sort? If not, I wouldn't really worry about it.

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    Originally Posted by chay
    Between DS realizing that his challenges with writing weren't because he was stupid and the school allowing the use of a scribe when needed it made a huge improvement in his behaviour and enthusiasm about school.


    This is really interesting to me, because DD9 has a relatively low processing speed (109, I think), and a GAI of 150-ish. The neuropsych diagnosed her with dysgraphia, but I've been thinking more and more that it doesn't really fit her. You found that the processing speed specifically impacted writing? Can you tell me more about that?

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    Sorry for the slight derail (but it might help out the OP so I'll leave it for now).

    I have wondered a bit about dysgraphia with my DS after reading posts here. I'm not sure if they were looking for it and ruled it out or if they didn't consider/missed it. Reading the signs and symptoms on Wikipedia he doesn't fit most of it. However I'm far from an expert and I have no idea if their list is a good one or not. I do see the following in DS on their list, but the rest doesn't apply.
    - Poor legibility (although compared to most grade 2 boys, he isn't that bad...)
    - Handwriting abilities that may interfere with spelling and written composition
    - Having a hard time translating ideas to writing

    We were told it was his processing speed and low working memory that were impacting his writing. If I recall correctly they explained that it takes him time to think of the sentence (and usually extra time to pare down his complex thought/vocabulary into something he could write in grade 1), remember how to make the letter and then time to physically write it. All of that extra time was extremely frustrating for him especially when most of the other kids were much faster (he figured out very young that he was smart and that for smart kids school was easy so this caused a lot of frustration for him and challenged his view of himself). He is not as bad when copying stuff that we write and last year we would often scribe his answers and then have him copy it so he'd get some writing practice while trying to limit the frustration. I think if he was truly dysgraphic the copying would have been more of an issue (but again, not an expert).

    This year his writing has improved a lot. Looking at writing samples from his class a month ago his fit right in. He even was towards the top of the class in the amount of writing he produces which is light years ahead of last year when he hardly ever finished anything at school.

    We'll likely end up testing again in the next year or two and I'm really curious if he will be as low as he was at 6.5. He didn't talk at all until 19 months and did speech therapy until age 3, you'd never know it now. Maybe writing will be the same, slow start and then catch up. Maybe he was speech delayed because he has low processing speed and writing will just be another thing he has learned to deal with well enough to blend in.

    HTH Aren't these kids fun? wink

    Last edited by chay; 12/03/13 08:36 AM.
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    Ds had a 35 point spread between PRI and Processing speed. We were worried too and had further testing done. he was diagnosed with ADHD coupled with Anxiety. The anxiety made his ADHD worse. He wasnt prescribed any medication. The psychologist suggested counselling for anxiety and said that might have affected his scores.
    His teachers have not noticed the ADHD and are often surprised when I tell them about it. Though a few have noticed that it takes him awhile to come up with answers when called upon in class.His hand is raised when the question is asked but he stumbles over words and has to repeat a few words. He does that home too when he is excited about something and has all this crazy wonderful ideas that his brain is thinking up - we have to remind him to slow down and breathe and then he does much better.

    Last edited by rachsr; 12/03/13 09:51 AM.
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    Originally Posted by LouDD
    his GIA was severely compromised bc of his processing score...

    Which test was your ds given? The WJ-III Test of Cognitive Abilities gives a GIA, so if that was the test what you've said about the GIA impacted by a low processing score makes sense, but if it was the WISC, the "GAI" is a score given that excludes processing speed (FSIQ includes it).

    The reason I ask is that it might help to know exactly what "processing speed" subtest was low, or was it a combination of both subtests on the WISC.

    Quote
    but the Ed Psych still said he was a perfect candidate for ODS due to his reasoning score.

    I'm also curious why your ds was being tested by an Ed Psych and was the psych testing through school? Was the testing for admission to a gifted program or a different reason? Again, whether or not I'd wonder about the significance of a discrepancy in processing speed would depend to a certain extent on why you were seeking out testing.

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    The difference between his highest score and lowest was 49 points ! that's 3 SD isn't it ?

    Yep, for tests with at SD of 15. OTOH, again, the significance of that spread might depend on the test/subtest and what was being measured. My dysgraphic/dyspraxic ds has a spread of almost 100 points from his highest to lowest WJ-III Cog subtests. His spread of subtest scores on the WISC is less.. but the key to knowing that he is dysgraphic/dyspraxic is in the combination of low subtest score with writing samples, developmental history and other symptoms. DS also had quite a significant bit of anxiety surrounding school by the time we had him tested.

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    Should we take him to a psych to test for Dyspraxia or (inattentive) ADD? [//quote]

    A few replies above mentioned children with a dip in processing speed where it means nothing and further testing wasn't pursued. On the one hand I agree - if your ds is happy and doing well in school and the testing he's had wasn't out of concern for any reason, it most likely means nothing significant and further testing isn't going to be useful. OTOH - I think that one of the worries about *not* going for further testing to determine *why* there is a significant difference in processing speed is that many times gifted children can *look* like everything is a-ok because their other strengths allow them to compensate so well. So on the one hand, you could ask - if he can compensate well, isn't that enough? And it might be - especially in the early school years, but then once the demand of workload increases in school it might be an issue. Or it might be an issue now and it's just now something anyone sees because your ds is HG. So for me, if I had even one tiny question about is it "something" I'd seek out further testing to determine the why behind the discrepancy in subtest scores.

    Another question I had is were there other tests run at the time of the ability test? Any achievement testing? Any executive functioning/visual motor/fine motor etc? These are the types of tests a neuropsych will run, in addition to a detailed parent interview with developmental history and behavioral surveys completed by parents and teachers. This type of approach throws out a large net that looks at the whole child's functioning rather than specifically looking to rule out dysgraphia or ADHD, for instance.. which (jmo) gives a better chance of finding what's truly going on. I think that we often can get caught up in looking for what we understand - for instance, my ds had a teacher who was convinced he had ADHD in 2nd grade, because she knew several children with ADHD and he had similar symptoms. I had never heard of dysgraphia at that point in time, so it never would have occurred to me to take him to an OT for a fine motor eval. Yet that's what he had. If I'd only taken him to an ADHD specialist, he might or might not have come home with an ADHD diagnosis, but he certainly wouldn't have come home with us understanding he was dysgraphic. If we'd taken him to a DO for a vision screening because we thought he might be dysgraphic he would have come home with an "everything's fine" diagnosis because his dysgraphia is not visual in origin. If we'd taken him to an OT for a handwriting eval he *might* have come home with a dysgraphia diagnosis but we would have missed that it's due to dyspraxia, which actually does impact him although if you just met him and didn't know about that diagnosis you would not think by just looking at him he's any different than any other kid on the playground or in class.

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    What are some other causes of slow processing speed?

    There are most likely quite a few, including possibly being distracted during the ability subtest, if that's the only indication of anything. That's where having a thorough eval can be really helpful.

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    Someone told me that it is bc they are simply thinking too many things over at once when gifted! That an answer isn't as simple as black and white so they literally have too much info going on?

    This can absolutely happen with HG/+ kiddos - to be honest, I suspect that it can happen with kids who aren't even considered gifted. This is where understanding specifically *which* subtest was low and what the task required on the subtest is. For instance, what you describe is a child who is slow to respond to a question because they are mulling over many different possible answers. The "Coding" subtest on the WISC (one of the processing speed subtest) requires a child to draw a mark in a certain way within a time limit. There really aren't choices to be made that are something a child would think over - the test is measuring visual-motor coordination and speed.

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    What can I do to help him ? the huge difference is a worry.

    Did you think there was an issue before he had this test? That's the first thing to do - determine if, from your perspective, he needs help with something. Then the next step is to determine why he has this low score. Get the extra data (achievement testing etc) if you don't have it. Look at his functioning at school and what happens with homework etc. Ask more questions of the Ed Psych if you can. Consider a neuropsych eval to get the follow-up testing if you don't have any idea why the processing speed subtest is low.

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    I want to do what is right for him.. but also know that telling the school to focus on his (dis) ability will simply make him MORE bored and disillusioned with school frown

    If he has a disability that is impacting his ability to show what he knows at school, he's most likely going to eventually be frustrated and that in turn will also lead to being unhappy at school. What you need to do is understand what's really going on, so that he can get help and/or accommodations if he has a challenge *and* also be able to participate in programs at school that are at his level of intellectual ability.

    Quote
    The Ed Psych did little in her recommendations to help except tell us to give him cards with pictures to get him used to a routine in the morning ! which he doesn't need.. he is no different to any other child in terms of routine or getting out the door or following instructions... he simply takes longer to process academic info or questions... he is perfectly able in all other areas of attention and focus... he can sit and do a 100 piece puzzle till its finished etc ... spend ages looking up the theory of evolution of animals.. or watching a documentary...

    It's possible you are getting routine suggestions from the Ed Psych that are not specific to your ds, or it's possible the Ed Psych might be seeing something that you're not simply because you live with your ds and you're used to him. I'm sorry, I'm in a hurry and I probably am not explaining that well! FWIW, I've often heard that the ability to focus on something of interest is actually common in children with ADHD, and I've seen it in the children I know with ADHD. Morning routines, getting out of the house etc - you haven't seen an issue but you've also said "no different than any child" - does that mean you are having to give him reminders etc? I have to do that with all my kids, dyspraxic or not - so on the surface ds may look just like a typical kid who needs a bit of support from a parent with typical kid getting-things-done. But it's not typical. And understanding that it's not is important. Things like what your Ed Psych suggested seemed silly to me when suggested but they made a world of difference to my ds (and they don't hurt with my nt kids either :)).

    I am sorry this was such a long ramble - I hope some of it helped!

    polarbear

    Please help ! and thank you !

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    LouDD Offline OP
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    Thanks so much for all your replies and advice. Polar bear- yes it was the WJ III- perhaps not the best test for him ?

    He was tested bc we have another HG son and we saw a lot of similarities, except there was also "something" not quite right. We are in New Zealand and the school system does NO testing for GATE or similar !

    His handwriting was in the 2nd percentile.. yes, I said second smile

    The tester has since told me she is not qualified to assess Dysgraphia etc. had we known this we would not have bothered with her.

    Does anyone know if Dysgraphia effects instruction following? his scores for this were also low.

    And, should we be getting a WISC IV instead?

    Last edited by LouDD; 12/03/13 02:37 PM.
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