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I need advice & hope you personality experts (Kriston?) might be able to help.

DS12 (8th grader next year) is thought of as "very social"--kids call/text him constantly, invite him to every outing, he's well-liked--just an absolute pleasure to be around. They know he's very smart, so kids always ask for help on homework, when placed on team projects he does the lion's share of work (teammates expect it), he's often put with special ed or low achieving kids on projects because the teachers know he'll get the work done. He comes home exhausted, like he's put his whole heart and soul into every day, being nice, helpful--sometimes with lots of homework because he spent free time helping others get their work done. I think it's been very hard on him. He works so hard at this social persona that he's not attending to his own needs.

Yesterday he expressed interest in homeschooling for next year. I think it's because he wants to escape this enormous pressure he has imposed on himself. Anyone who knew him (his social persona) would be extremely surprised to think he'd want to homeschool. I actually started researching homeschooling last night because I worry about him. I remember a certain personality type was great in social settings, but felt exhausted afterwards and that's how he is. Any suggestions?

Poor kid! I'm exhausted just reading your description. I'm no Kriston, but here are some links related to Myers-Briggs personality testing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator

free m-b online test
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Also, if you do decide to homeschool, I'm sure Kriston or other homeschooler parents will tell you there are lots of social outlets for homeschooled kids too. (And some districts will allow partial homeschooling, where your child can go to school for the nonacademic stuff and sports etc, and get homeschooled for academics.)

Even extraverts need some recharging. I'm an ENTP, with a preschooler at home. I need some alone time at the end of the day, even though I do get recharged for the most part around other people.

It might also be helpful to talk to your son about making sure his own needs are met, including relaxation and fun time, before he pours himself into to many activities helping others. Also, maybe a conference with the teachers to discover if there's a way of assigning group efforts so that the lion's share is not done by your DS.

Thank you, St Pauli,

This is helpful. Yes, I would like to see DS re-charge and need to talk to him about it. I need to also talk to the teachers about it, but am kind of getting interested in the homeschool idea. Sooner or later, I'm certain it'll be necessary.

Cym-

The BIQ conference this year had a speaker discussing highly intelligent kids and group work in school. I had to miss that one, but I imagine it must have been interesting. I can see if I can get a copy of the presenter's notes for you...

Your son sounds a lot like my ds 11. "Hector" tends to feel responsible for the members of any group, and he often feels conflicted by the pressures of being "best friend" to several different kids and trying to balance things out. Homeschooling will take the sting out of those uncomfortable group projects, but it will not avoid all social dilemmas. But yes, it absolutely can be a great fit for an outgoing kid! I just want to be fair and not paint too rosey a portrait.

Let me know about those notes. If you're committed to trying homeschooling, then maybe you don't have an interest, and that's fine too.

Hi all, I think Krison mentioned she will be out of town a few days.

I saw this scenario happening with DD8 in first grade. I observed for awhile and let it go, but then stepped in. I did not want her school identity to be the girl who: Always knows every answer, is a good influence on the others ie: manages behavior issues in other kids, already knows everything so she can spend her classroom time helping the ones who are behind.
In fact, I was not nice about it because it makes me pretty mad.

I understand this has been a different experience for your son and he has grown to like and appreciate helping the other kids in class.

But, if it is becoming a problem, perhaps you could meet with the principal and express your concerns. You have the right to insist that excessive aiding in class stop, especially since he is being negatively affected by it now.

Sounds like you have a great relationship with the school. Maybe you can lead in with: "In the past DS has felt honored and developed leadership skills and great self esteem by helping out other students in the class. We feel, though, that this leadership postion has developed in a way that has begun to infringe on his own learning needs a little bit. He has expressed discomfort lately and would like to make a change........

You could propose this as a solution to him and if it doesn't work then offer homeschool? I've found that you can never predict how the school will respond when you bring up these issues. Sometimes they really come through and do what they should for the kids.

Good luck!

Neato

'Neato's right; I was out of town. Sorry to abandon you in your time of need, cym. Though I must say that I don't think I can add much to what help you've gotten. (And I'm no expert on personality types--just interested and talkative! )



I think you're describing many of the "I" personality types, actually. It certainly describes me, as an INTJ. I'm highly social--no one would peg me as an introvert!--but I desperately need my alone time.

Frankly, I think any person who is near the I/E borderline is going to need a lot of social time *and* a lot of alone time, regardless of the other personality factors. When you hug that line, you have characteristics of both types.

And SPG makes an important point: even extroverts need alone time. It's a human need. It's just that the I's need more time alone than the E's and the E's sometimes need the time alone for different purposes than the I's. (For example, I's live more of an inner life and need the time to do that. E's are more externally driven, but even the most extroverted at least need time so they can concentrate on something hard for them and need time alone so they can plan social outings.)

If your DS is happy at the school otherwise, I think I'd suggest that the two of you work on getting him less responsibility there first, before making the plunge into homeschooling. Especially in those teen years, the social stuff tends to become very important very fast, and there's a decent chance he might regret his choice if he left a group setting at the start of puberty.

However, if HSing has been tempting him for a while, then I'd recommend looking into your local HS groups. A good one will make the social stuff easy; if there isn't a good one around, you might not want to look into HSing any further. Our group is really active and large, so I have no worries about the social scene for my highly social introvert. There's a good clump of nice kids right around my DS's age in our HS group, so between them and the kids in the neighborhood (who don't care at all that he homeschools), he gets what he needs. Our group even holds dances--including a homeschool prom!--every year for the high school aged kids, so they're not missing out on some of those adolescent touchstones. It's amazingly organized and cohesive and convenient.

I guess all of this is a long way of saying that I don't really know which personality type your son is, so you should probably give him the Meyers-Brigs to find out. (Probably you should give him both the adult version and the kid version, in fact, since your DS is right on the age break between the two. If the results differ, read both descriptions and pick the one closest to what you see and what he thinks is right.)

Then consider what would best solve his problem. I think HSing might solve it for him, but so might just standing up for himself at school. Learning to say "no" nicely is an important skill to learn. It might be one of the greatest things you can teach him!

So...I feel like that wasn't a very helpful answer. I certainly didn't really tell you what you asked for! Sorry! If you want to talk more, please let me know. I'll try to do better!

For the record, my husband is the most deeply 'I' person I've every known, and also is a model of social grace when out and about among people. I just didn't see the personal cost to him when we were dating. All that glitters isn't gold. Social Grace, not my husband, that is!

This is really interesting for me to consider, since my DS so 'wants' to be one of those 'golden children' that everyone at school 'loves' and appreciates. Of Course that will never happen! People do love him in a 'you are such a character' way, but he yearns for what your son has. I wouldn't mind having a kid like that either - or so I thought. But now that I see the cost to him, the grass is suddenly much less 'green' on your side of the fence!

So Cym,
I think either path can be good - teaching him to self advocate would be wonderful, stepping in the talk to the school would also be wonderful, and homeschooling, with EPGY distancy high school or local CC classes or his own projects would also be wonderful. Is he the kind of kid who is good at creating challenging and exciting academic challenges for himself and then following through.

Here's an untested idea that come into my head - procede with caution -

As long as you are taking the Myers-Briggs, look and see if he is a 'p' or a 'j' - if he's a 'j' then you can expect him to be able to work an online class, or large project at the library on autopilot. If he's a 'p' and you are a 'p' - again no problem, you can appreciate that while he's gathering ever-more data he is 'doing something' and encourage projects like websites that are meant to be added to bit by bit. OTOH, If you are a 'J' and he is a strong 'P,' you may want to stay away from homeschooling, or at least procede with caution.

Smiles and ((hugs))
Grinity

Cym,
Thanks for the post. This past year in school, we saw the DS's teacher and his fellow classmates setting up a very similar situation to what you are describing. DS was very happy to be both liked by his peers and acknowleged for his ability. He did show signs of worrying that so and so wasn't able to get this or that assignment and he couldn't figure out how to help them. We tried to let him know that it was nice of him to try but it really was his teacher's job to help that student. Group projects did become mostly done by DS though. Now I know some things to watch out for going forward.

Although we joke about our little extrovert, DS really is an I rather than an E. If he doesn't get his alone time, he becomes increasingly edgy, frustrated and moody. Hmmm, alot like his parents with that.

Grinity, I am a J and DS appears to be a P. Your comment is the primary reason, I stay on the fence as far as homeschooling I can lose my patience pretty fast when DS doesn't stay on task by my definition!

Good luck Cym and son:)

Elh,
I'm not a "j" - so I don't know what it's like. I imagine it's a bit like 'quiting cigaretts' to learn to abstain from the itch to want to force your child to'get it over with.' But I would encourage you to not let the j/p difference stop you from homeschooling if you believe it is the best chance for your son.

Why?
1) You son isn't getting the positive reflections at his school that Cym's son gets at his school - so you have less to loose. (Do I remember correctly? Sorry if I'm off - I'm refering to a March 07 post, and if things have improved since there - Yippee! Just assume I'm talking to someone else, ok?)
2) Your son is younger, and has much longer to go before 'grades count' in high school. Even a year or two of homeschooling can be a wonderful thing. Aren't younger kids allowed to be 'flighty?'
3) 2E issues and asynchronous development are a pain in all adult's necks, so I'm guessing you won't be worse than the average teacher.
4) You are aware of your 'J' tendencies, and can learn to appreciate the benifits of 'P' - ((Did you happen to marry one?))
5) You can choose a kind of homeschooling that works for you - perhaps he needs to set his own goals, or work in smaller doses, or just do more of what he likes, so the stuff he struggles with can be easier to tolerate. ((cue Mary Poppins singing 'A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.))
6) You might be able to figure him out better than the help he gets in school. He might be more fun to be with after the pressures of school have stopped.
7) You will have more flexibility to pursue social interactions that work for him.

anyway - There are lots of big differences between the two situations... I sure didn't mean to make a rule that no 'J' parent ever homeschool a 'P' kid! I just want to express sympathy that it is can be painful, but I think it can be the good kind of pain if you use it to grow.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I was going to say much the same thing you said, Grin.

I think any combo of parent and kid could potentially be challenging if you aren't aware of where you might run into trouble. But if you know the child's personality and your own, then you can make yourself aware of the potential problem areas and you can keep your own reactions in check as needed.

Knowing that "on task" and "learning" can be two different things for a given child makes it a whole lot easier to adapt as a homeschool parent. Trust me, even the most "J" kid in the world is not always going to stay focused! I speak from experience!

I guess what I'm saying is that you shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater because of the J/P issue. Know thyself and know thy child, and then you can be mindful of the discrepencies between you and adjust as needed.