Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion What's your opinion based on your experience?

Dear JB

Based on your observations, and the speed at which your son picks things up, very much HG+, after that terms are very hard to use. Each child is different with different streangths. I have seen articals of children with a lower test score then our DS, but they read sooner, and are more advanced academicly. It was hard for us at first,to see the differance. One glaring example came up at a play date party at home. Because of the move in September to a school that is far away, we are helping him have local friends. When the boys from his class came over, our DS5 wanted to play Life, so I set it up went over the rules, and then had to help the three other boys play. This I understood, somewhat difficult game, money to count, reading, etc.... The part that really suprised me was when they played Battle Ships, DS5 I showed once last year how to play, he quickly understood and we played the game. One of the boys in his class, could not understand the grid, I had to show him about 8 times. What I assumed was easy to learn was hard for his friends. Of course I helped out and kept it fun, but it is hard to know what the norm is. MY DW has helped this year in K, and that has helped us to see where he is at. In his K class, most now read some, some read above level. In math some can add, and one can do some subtraction. No carry over math, no multiplication, division, fractions, telling time or money. In California the standards may be different then where you are from. Based agin on what you pointed out about your DS5, there is no doubt in my mind (Like I know that much about this) that he is maybe even PG. Terms become somwhat useless at some point even in the PG range there is so much diversity.

Edwin

Thanks, this helps.

Definite can relate as well. DS grasped charts and graphs the first time that he saw them in a book about the solar system and I thought "hm. that's interesting. I think that's pretty fairly advanced for a 5 yo"

Sent a PM as well.

JB

Hi JBDad. We had our DS7 skip K. It was a good decision for him based on these facts:
1) We had already had testing done and MrWiggly had clearly mastered K curriculum, IQ testing put him in the gifted range and out of level testing showed he had already mastered some first grade material.
2) MrWiggly had attended daycare/preschool with a "pre-K" program whose schedule and curriculum was basically exactly like what our school did in K. He had been in daycare from the age of 12 weeks, so certainly had already grasped the concepts of groups, schedules, stand in line, etc.
3) MrWiggly was already having behavioral problems in preschool out of boredom
4) His visual-motor skills were tested at the 99th%, he was self taught in writing but has great handwriting skills in terms of the motor part of the task.
5) We felt that MrWiggly would do much better starting off with a group of kids a year older, as opposed to having to leave a group he had befriended.
6) There were no identified problems with social skills or peer interaction
7) MrWiggly fit in well size wise with the first graders and is only 7 months younger than the youngest "regular" classmate (he's a March bday, with cutoff of 9/1 for the class).
8) Although MrWiggly wanted to play in the K room he also wanted to "learn hard math" and we knew he wouldn't get that in K.
9) The private test report we gave the school stated that he would need "significant differentiation of curriculum" if placed in a K program. I think this clinched it for the principal. He still doesn't seem to want to ask his staff to differentiate anything!

That said, your decision will need to be based on the personal knowledge you have of your son, your knowledge of the teachers he may have in any given placement, the support of the administration at your school and their willingness to meet his needs in any placement you decide on. There's a lot to be considered when looking at acceleration. The Iowa Acceleration Manual is very helpful to use in this matter. It provides a nice list of things to consider when accelerating a child.

Given your description of your son I can't really see how he would be happy and learning in a K program without "significant differentiation." Even in first grade, my son was in the highest reading group and was the best reader. He was never really challenged in reading or math - we ended up pulling him from first grade math, homeschooling the end of the year, then skipping another grade for placement in math the following year. We do not regret having him skip K at all.

If K is not mandatory in PA have you considered just homeschooling and not even enrolling him in K at all? Why not just keep him home and then advocate for differentiation in first. Perhaps that advocacy would be easier? Quite frankly I have to agree with comments that your son may fall in the PG range. In that case, it is unlikely that a typical public school will be able to meet his needs.

Do you have the resources to test privately? Our school would not touch our son until he was actually attending. I tried multiple times to get them to test. They finally agreed to look at our private testing, have the psychologist do some brief testing of her own and then meet BEFORE school started - only after we informed them that we were taking him to the Belin-Blank Center at U of Iowa for testing.

Good luck. It's a lot to consider and a hard decision. Just remember that you can only make the best decision for this moment with the information you have at the time. And whatever you decide now won't be written in stone or the last decision you have to make in terms of education for your son! Trust me on this one!

JBDad:

I want to recommend some books I just read this year that I wish I had read when DS was younger:

Losing Our Minds, by Deborah Ruf -- provides information on levels of giftedness and early childhood indicators, anecdotes regarding school and life of gifted kids, and advice on proper school placement. Learn what worked and what didn't for other G, MG, HG, PG kids and their families.

and Re-forming Gifted Education by Karen Rogers, which goes over the options available -- types of acceleration and enrichment, modes of learning, etc., to help you figure out what type of school, grade level, curriculum and approach will work for your child.

Honestly, from what you tell me right now, I think you'd be best off homeschooling. Of course, PA has a gifted education mandate, so you might do better than we have done from 4 y.o. to 9 y.o. in NY. In our experience so far, we haven't gotten any sort of differentiation, even after the school did IQ and achievement testing (for OT services). We may possibly get a grade skip in math next year, but it's all still up in the air.

It sounds like your DS loves learning and you are following his lead for learning. Great job!

JBDad,

From what you said, your son fits nicely on this board, where huge majority of the kids fits in the 99.8%+ range, with lots of the kids being DYS.

I have a math kid (who did learn long division in K in Montessori ). DS5 will be homeschooled next year though. I suggest reading book "Developing Math Talent, A Guide for Educating Gifted And Advanced Learners in Math"

Good luck at your meeting and you too, Dottie.

And gratified...then there is my MG kid who is so unhappy with school ... go figure... sometimes I think there is no figuring these kids out. Everything has to be done on an individual basis but unfortunately, school prefers to lump kids into categories.

I do think that when people make the comments that PG kids don't do well in PS, I think they are thinking of all the schools that don't allow acceleration, skips, differentiation etc. I think those schools are more common than the ones that many here have that allow differentiation, acceleration, compaction, and skips.

A friend of mine's kids go to a school where the curriculum is so diverse for ALL the kids, my son would be much happier there.

Thanks for the book recommendations and other comments. Home schooling is probably not an option for us unfortunately.

(DW and I are transplants from Rochester NY and went through that school system. Of course I'm sure it's a lot different now!)

JB

I actually just got that book about a week ago. I'm reading it at a leisurely pace. IIRC, this one is a bit more academic in nature so it's a slower read for me!

JB

I totally agree Dottie. At our school with 3 1st grade classes I know parents at all ends of the spectrum that are thrilled or had a really rough year depending on the teacher and the child. I haven't found anyone unhappy for the reasons we are. But unhappy nonetheless.

Is the Kindy program full day or half day? If the program is half day, you may be better off getting access to the 1st grade pullout, doing K and afterschooling.

Whatever you do, once 'real' school starts, Insist, insist, insist on a pit of 'Dad-Homework' every school day from the very begining. You pick the topics, and I reccomend 2/3 time on his strengths - stuff that will make him drool and 1/3 on stuff that you see as his weaker points.

BTW - I love Handwriting without tears for handwriting practice. If he makes his letters small and adult sized, you can skip to the 5th grade printing book, otherwise, start with the early books. They don't cost much, and I really like the straightforwardness.

Anyway - don't let DS assume that he only need do what the teacher requests - expect him to work for you too! Even if it's 10 minutes a night Monday - Friday, get him used to the idea that this is what the big boys do. Then you will always be able to provide him with teaching at his 'readiness level' no matter what the school does.

Half day programs are nice because then the child isn't too pooped to learn when they get home. Hope I don't sound too cynical. If it's a full day program, you may as well get the early skip to 1st.

Whatever you decide -
Good luck,
Grinity