Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Downside to over- verbalizing math?

I tend to be that kind of person as well-- so are both DH and DD, though with training all three of us can (mostly) tap into the discrete steps that are logical progressions of one another.

But it's rather like a proof construction at that point; we already GOT the answer, now we just need to convince everyone else that it's completely logical and not just whatever popped into my head-- even though technically that IS sort of how it works from my end of things.

LOL.

Well I wouldn't advocate it as a sole mode of operation; I would be a fraud if I did. I don't work that way, but it will fast track a bright kid into some solid heuristics without all the namby pamby grind of inductive accumulation schools seem to prefer.

p.s. I should say I don't work that way unless I am developing software or explaining a system or trying to persuade someone to stop wasting time and focus on where the problem is.

Imagine that! We all solve problems in different ways and different environments require different approaches.

Several thoughts:

Our DS7 uses online courses which have available humans that we generally don't make use of. Be careful what you wish for with their feedback/grading. Their cursory "yep, he knows what he's doing, 100%" may be far better that one alternative which is that a rubric using grader pedantically insists that a specific detailed method be used, giving failing grades to students who knows what they're doing but don't precisely follow the prescribed recipe.

DS7 will have to occasionally submit written solutions to the human for his pre-algebra (gr 7) course he just started, and while we'd like to get feedback and constructive criticism about how his writing efforts live up to the expectations for the regular aged students, so we can work on it if necessary, I don't want them to say "this kid's writing like a 7 year old- FAIL!"

When accelerated in a class where the student is precocious in maths but not so much in writing, you want to figure out the right compromise where the writing expectations are not unrealistic, but nevertheless there are expectations of whatever improvement is reasonable.

(I have more to say but I'll continue later.)

You make an excellent point. In fact, I believe that it is partly DS' verbal abilities that convinced the district G&T people of the advisability of his first math acceleration in 2nd grade.

I do see your point based on the few mathematical and econometric papers that I had to study in college. One of my undergraduate majors was in applied math but I have always been as strong in verbal areas so what is bothering me about DS' approach is partly due to my perception that he is not making the most efficient choices as dictated by the situation. In some cases he is using many words where math symbols would have been more concise and elegant.

I guess if your DD also thinks mathematically rather than verbally, then a helpful approach may be to ask her to pretend to explain to someone who has not mastered the concepts/skills.

That has been our district/school's approach to mathematics as well except for the bonus+1 for doing it the teacher's way. Since DS doesn't have real classmates in his online course, perhaps this is one way for him to practice his verbal explanations.

I hear you and can appreciate your perspective. We all make decisions for our children that is right for them and perhaps for us as well. For my DS, I have always felt strongly that he never get special considerations/handicaps and that he acquire the flexibility of producing the approach requested/demanded. That is why I did not request his first math acceleration until age 7 in 2nd grade. That was the point where he can clearly meet the verbalizing/writing demands of 4th grade math and be flexible/fluent enough to produce any methods requested. There was no challenge math-wise post-acceleration but DS still remembers fondly the challenge of proofing/explaining his solutions.

You are fortunate that there is a good fit between your philosophy and the school's. In our district, DS would not have been allowed to accelerate if writing was an issue as that was on the check-off list. The district doesn't want second-class citizens. I guess it comes back to concern with liability from disgruntled parents who later regret the acceleration.

I think you bring up the broader topic (for another thread perhaps) about if/when to accelerate when a student has an asynchronous set of abilities, such as for example when their mathematical abilities are far more advanced than writing abilities. (I'm not sure it should be called "asynchronous", though. It's normal for some skills to be more advanced than others.)

So the observation is that when homeschooling you have the freedom to accelerate fully in the advanced skill, and let the other skills develop in due course, whereas in B&M schools the student has to be more up to speed in the full suite of skills possessed by the typical classmate.

We significantly reduce the writing requirements suggested in the online lessons (it's a lot of busywork anyway). We're aware that ultimately the writing skills have to develop, but we can choose the timeline we think is best for this.