Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Correlation between early milestones and giftness?

I was looking to get some feedback here...Obviously there is a correlation between early milestones and giftedness - what I was wondering though, is if there is a correlation between particular early abilities and particular levels of giftedness. For example...does the kid who reads super early, had an interest in chemistry at 3 more likely to be PG than the kid who makes up stories and had really good fine motor? (mind you I just made those up).

I have a gifted DS3.5...he hasn't been tested yet, so I have NO idea about his 'level'...besides doing the Ruf test thingie online (he was a level 4...though he didn't talk till he was 2 and I don't know how much that throws things off, or even how accurate that test is) - sometimes I think I'm dealing with extreme giftedness, other days I think I'm deluding myself (not sure this will ever go away, haha) but I just think it would be nice to KNOW more about where he falls on the giftedness spectrum...at least somewhat, for decisions about schooling etc etc.

I guess I was looking for some real life experiences...parents with two kids with differing levels of giftedness, did you see a marked difference (or any difference at all) in the their early abilities?

Thanks!

My boys are not a good example. One is 2e and was delayed until about age 4 significantly...he has Asperger's so his early language delays are understandable. Then my second child looked completely different in the development department when compared to the delays my first had so we kept telling ourselves...oh that is how it is normally supposed to be (and he was completely advanced with all milestones) and so we didn't recognize his gifted traits (although we thought he was extremely funny) until he was about 5.

Younger son is at least HG but one test shows PG so who knows. Older son doesn't test well so not sure, tests at just qualifying for the program using disadvantaged criteria but in real life presents much higher than that. The 2nd e probably gets in the way.

We have threads about this quite often - it's fascinating to compare experiences I guess - so you might want to search (google works better than the site's own search). I think it's fair to say that any rule you might make has exceptions - e.g. we certainly have PG children talked about here who didn't read early - but generally their childhoods can be made sense of looking back. But then, humans are good at spotting patterns even when they aren't there... Fwiw, mine was a late talker, early reader, and now excels academically. We have not tested as it doesn't seem helpful (though in the US there are schools for which you have to, and some people find it helpful for other reasons too). There's nothing a tester can tell you that's as valuable as you knowing your child. It's never too soon to think about education options and think "what if" your child has particular needs, but it's important to keep an open mind about how things may change too.

PS Take Ruf's levels with a large pinch of salt - they're based on anecdata not science, it seems.

I remember talking to DD's pediatrician at her 16 mo. checkup because she was only saying a few understandable words at that point. In the next couple months her speech took off and at 2 her speech was clearly very advanced and she was talking in 20 word complex sentences with no articulation difficulties. She would rattle on to complete strangers, and call them "honey". She used the word "honey" in every other sentence. People thought she was a couple years older than she was. She was also able to count up to 40 or 50 at age 2 with one-to-one correspondence. She started reading at 4 and was fluent by the time she started K.
We did see a few things when she was a baby--for instance she was very socially adept and would do things like fake sneeze at 9 months old just to get attention. She wanted people to look at her and say "bless you." But in terms of gross/fine motor skills and speech at age 1, she seemed pretty average. We didn't really start to see that she was advanced until she was 2.
I always thought of her as being verbally advanced and very articulate, so I was kind of surprised by her IQ tests a week ago--she scored 153 for perceptual reasoning and 135 for verbal comprehension. I was totally not expecting a PR score that high--I've always thought it was my DS who was advanced in that area, with his photographic type memory.

DS scores in the 99th percentile for his GAI now at age 6, but had some huge delays. He was actually advanced for motor skills as an infant and was walking well by his first birthday. He said his first words around his first birthday. He was able to climb out of his crib and walk up and down steps. But then at around 1.5 speech/motor skill development pretty much stopped. We now know he has developmental coordination disorder. But even as a toddler he was clearly intelligent. He was obsessed with figuring out how things worked. At age 1 he was fascinated by high chair and carseat buckles and would snap and unsnap them while examining the mechanisms. He loved puzzles and shape sorters. When he was 2 or 3 I caught him trying to take my computer apart. He had a screwdriver and electrical cords in his hands and said he was fixing my computer. He was very good with a computer and knew how to operate Windows and the mouse at 2.5 or 3. Around his 4th birthday I figured out he could read by sounding out words, and he was fluent w/ reading by his 5th birthday even though he hardly ever worked on it.
Now at age 6 he scores in the high average range for verbal ability but above 140 for non-verbal ability. With him, I think there has been a lot of uneven brain maturation and he seems much like one of the kids described in the book "The Einstein Syndrome".
It's hard to tell with preschool age kids what is really going on but both of my kids had signs of advanced abilities, even as toddlers. With DS things were esp. confusing because he had advanced abilities mixed with delays. Turns out he's 2e.

That is my guess, too, MoN.

DD didn't read particularly early (4, almost 5). I also don't think she walked particularly early (11 mo). The only really good clues that we had until she did learn to read were related to her apparent social skills and observation/memory. She also always did things with pretty much complete mastery once she DID do them. More like quantum jumping than "developing."

My personal pet theory is that the LOG is probably given away more by the rate of complex skill acquisition/development than by age at milestones. A child that slowly acquires a vocabulary of 2K words by 2yo is probably not at the same LOG as one that acquires that same vocabulary over a course of 2 or 3 weeks at two.

That is just my armchair hypothesis-- it's based on the fact that such stories are almost universal among this group's elementary (and older) children who are clearly HG+ and not "leveling out" as older kids, and that even most other parents of GT kids do NOT have such experiences-- at least not the ones I've met. I'm not sure how to 'check' a young child for such a thing, however-- it's mostly opportunistic observation.

My daughter did not read until 7. (No instruction either. We unschooled.) Her WISC VCI was 166.

Thanks for the fascinating insight, everyone!

DS had essentially NO words until 2, and then, in the span of a few weeks was babbling off sentences with a vocab much higher than we could count, from delayed to advancee...it was like a light switch turned on. We have a new little one (5 months) and my DH and I keep wondering whether he will talk earlier and if so...what 'baby talk' really sounds like...because our older DS didn't do it. it was nothing and then boom, conversation!

HK, I totally get the 'quantum learning' thing...I always say this to DH...we show DS3.5 something once, and he gets it. It's a bit freaky really. Esp with math. I was originally wondering if the higher level topics he's doing are really as 'hard' as they are meant to be...I mean, spending maybe 5 mins teaching your 2 year old how to identify even or odd, and then him just getting it, to the million billions whatever the number. or him wanting to try something in grade 5 on IXL (we usually do 2nd and 3rd grade) and me being incredibly dubious but I'm like, ok...whatever...and he picks decimals. and then, after a 5 min explanation of how the hundred square grid works (the colored portion is the part of a whole, etc etc, count by tens - he already knows place value and skip counting for every number through 12, so that was easy enough) and then, oh, he's doing 5th grade math (granted, he wouldn't be able to do everything in 5th, there are definite foundations that are missing there - math is his passion). Mind you, these are the times that terrify me more than make me excited. I mean, it's exciting but...how do you DEAL with that??

Reading is an interesting one over here. He learned to read entirely on his own at 2.5, was sounding out unfamiliar words a bit before that but wasn't really interested until then. He loves to be read to, but still doesn't really like to read out loud, even though, when he does, he can pretty much read anything we put in front of him - so we don't push the matter. I figure he will eventually realize that reading on his own is fun and stimulating and so will want to do it. Until then, we'll read to him, and he will read on his own when he feels like it. (That's pretty much the rule in general: if there is interest, he flies ahead, if there is no interest...well, there is really no convincing stubborn boy to do anything he doesn't want to in that regard. So we don't.)

I just want to make sure he is happy and challenged. Our school board doesn't grade skip AT ALL and doesn't do pull out...but they will bring in materials...I just don't know if it will be enough. Right now he is in a loosely Montessori school, and his teacher just rolls with the punches, which is so awesome. Lately, we have been considering homeschooling more and more. Luckily, we have a little bit of time to decide, as he can stay in the Montessori another year, or two if he does K there. But it's not cheap! If public school could work something out...free really does sound nice over here....I'm not holding my breath though.

My first son started speaking at 5 months and by a year was able to have full conversations. By 20 months he could direct me to the shops and taught himself to read by 3. he also always seemed to know early maths skills. He sat early (5 months) but crawled and walked on average times (10 months and 14 months). We pegged him at about level 4 on Ruf's scale.

second son's first word was at 3 months and then nothing for ages so he took longer to speak clearly but had an advanced vocabulary from when he started speaking. He also taught himself to read before he was 3 and now at just over 5 years is a voracious reader. his maths skills are also astounding and he grasps things faster than older kid. Again, physical development was almost identical to first son, except that he is really strong at ball skill sports. We peg him at level 5.

third son's first word was also at 3 months, and although everyone says he speaks well for his age it's not the same as the other two, and sometimes I am unsure about him. Until he does things like randomly spelling out words with foam letters or funny things like that. I don't know his approx level just yet - my Ruf book is missing *fume*.

We are now a more ecclectic homeschooling/unschooling family so there is a lot less that we formally do with the kids. Having said that, he follows a lot of the same "signs" that oldest boy followed so for now I am assuming same LOG - his drives and intensities are the same except for being MORE tactile sensitive (bummer).

For me, the level is a good indicator of the speed at which they will need to work more than anything else. But honestly if you are already having doubts, chances are school without modifications will be too slow and cumbersome.

I loved Ruf's LOG guide mostly for the anecdotal stuff - it helped me to understand that "normal" for my kids is different, and that's okay. It also helped me come to terms with what I could expect more or less and it helped me to settle down a lot to understanding and accepting my kids just the way they are.

I know parents of young children would like a crystal ball regarding their children's level of giftedness, but based on my sample of three, Ruf's and similar tools would have proven completely inaccurate. My oldest was the one who often got unsolicited comments from specialists (friends as well as treating doctors). He flip over after he was readmitted to the hospital as a newborn, observed as behaving like a toddler when he was 8 months, and physically put together 24-piece jigsaw puzzles quickly and without adult input by his second birthday. However, he only tested moderately gifted at age 8 and his verbal comprehension index came out higher than his perceptual reasoning index. The pyschologist did write that the score was an under-estimate but I don't believe it was that far off based on the other real life and academic sign posts beyond the early childhood years. My younger DS, who meets the DYS criteria by a comfortable margin, had few astounding attributes in the early years. There was one therapist who noted his creative problem solving ability at 8 months but he never received my older DS' frequent unsolicited commments from professionals. My younger DS did demonstrate the ability to apply simple multiplication and division at age 4 without active teaching. However, he did not read until age 5, in the fall of Kindergarten, but was able to read Harry Potter independently by age 6. DD, twin to my younger DS, falls between her two brothers IQ-wise, but I can't think of any wow attributes from the preschool years at all. She did not read until winter of kindergarten and did not progress to Magic Treehouse until the end of kindergarten.

In observing my children's contemporaries, I see a lot of reshuffling during the first few years of school. Part of it has to do with chidlren's different development trajectories and different focuses at different times. Environmental factors also play a role as an enriched early childhoods and deprived early childhoods tend to skew early results.

We noticed DSs memory very early. I felt like he remembered events or stories by 6 months. One time at around 18 months in mid winter he he searched at someone's house for a garden hose he had last seen at under 1, wanted to play in the water. He was still barely speaking but clearly had been recording events nonetheless. I know other perfectly bright infants or toddlers that could remember something all day but forget it by the next, shape names etc. Tell ds something once, maybe twice, it's always there. The memory really made a difference to how ds appeared to others then and now. he just accumulated world experience so effectively he had experienced double or more life events. He is pg according to the Wisc in all but processing speed but I don't think he would have stood out to others early on so much without the working and long term memory. I still don't really see his nonverbal type abilities, maybe more what his interests are or aren't that is driving what's visible.