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Joined: Feb 2011
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At the same time, I was personally moved by this statement in the article ... a junior with average grades and test scores, is failing her AP U.S. history class; she said she is overwhelmed by the rapid pace and volume of material she needs to memorize. But she said she intends to stick it out because the class is teaching her to manage her time, take good notes and develop perseverance. She is reaping the benefits of challenge, known to prevent development of what another poster recently termed habits of ennui. She is expressing a growth mindset. Not to say that she has ever believed one only needs to enroll or show up to be successful, but this may be her antelope... the thing which motivates her to run (reference to Stephanie Tolan's Is It A Cheetah?). While believing that she may need this opportunity, not every average student may benefit. So much depends upon one's mindset. The practice of rationing seats and having too few seats may be an area to focus on in crafting a solution: Successful businesses are those which respond to changing consumer demand for goods and services. It seems schools could do this as well. There are many AP courses, and students may be interested in and well prepared for taking several. While scheduling logistics may preclude a student from taking every AP they may be prepared for, this ought to be the exception as supply of class sections could increase to meet demand. I don't necessarily disagree-- but what, precisely, is she CONTRIBUTING to the learning environment for, say, my daughter who is seated next to her? That's the problem, here, with open access. It necessarily waters down class discussion to the lowest common denominator, and at the same time, makes the learning environment increasingly worthless to those who NEED the higher level, deeper, richer content. Kids of higher LOG, speaking plainly. Saw this in action in both of my DD's AP courses-- the spring term was FAR better than the fall-- because a lot of the students who simply couldn't keep up or couldn't meet expectations... were gone by then. The kids in class with this youngster are reaping something, too. They are reaping remedial discussions, a lack of interaction with a classmate that has NOTHING to contribute to discussions about reading material... etc.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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... the problem, here, with open access. It necessarily waters down class discussion to the lowest common denominator, and at the same time, makes the learning environment increasingly worthless to those who NEED the higher level, deeper, richer content. Kids of higher LOG, speaking plainly. Agreed. However some implement the AP on pace, with a separate support class for students for whom the class is a reach... it is in the support class that time management, note-taking, and any remedial discussions would take place. This would represent the temporary "scaffolding". ... what, precisely, is she CONTRIBUTING to the learning environment... This is a very fair question. Thank you for bringing this up. Colleges especially look for those who will contribute to the student body, campus life, and/or the positive reputation of the school... those who give back in some way. With athletes the anticipated contribution is clear (they will maintain winning teams and ticket sales), with intellectuals possibly less so therefore students are encouraged to develop their extracurricular skills and interests so they may present themselves well positioned to make a contribution to the student body. I elaborated on CONTRIBUTION because possibly some are unaware, and focused solely on what a course or educational institution can do for them.
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The thing is-- there is already an appropriate class for such students (those for whom AP is a real "reach").
Those are called "honors" or "college prep" classes.
Teaching an AP class over the course of two years is pretty much always a violation of what those courses are intended to represent. The pacing IS part of the challenge of the course-- they aren't intended to be high school courses, and at least originally, were NEVER intended to be for "all" high school students. Only for maybe the top 10% in terms of achievement-- at most.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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... what, precisely, is she CONTRIBUTING to the learning environment... This is a very fair question. Thank you for bringing this up. Colleges especially look for those who will contribute to the student body, campus life, and/or the positive reputation of the school... those who give back in some way. With athletes the anticipated contribution is clear (they will maintain winning teams and ticket sales), with intellectuals possibly less so therefore students are encouraged to develop their extracurricular skills and interests so they may present themselves well positioned to make a contribution to the student body. I elaborated on CONTRIBUTION because possibly some are unaware, and focused solely on what a course or educational institution can do for them. In addition to contributing to class discussions, gifted students contribute to the reputation a school has for having smart graduates, which draws employers and therefore students. Their higher SAT/ACT scores boost the schools' USN&WR rankings. The higher a school's ranking, the more it can charge in tuition, which partially explains why non-top-tier schools offer full and partial merit scholarships.
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at least originally, were NEVER intended to be for "all" high school students. Only for maybe the top 10% in terms of achievement-- at most. Agreed. How to tease out those who are in the top percentiles of IQ but not achievements, those perhaps through no fault of their own may have been in learning environments (including home environments) in which they adapted to lack of intellectual challenge worthy of their potential, and became underachievers very early in life? How to get them used to chasing down an antelope to feed their inner cheetah (reference to Stephanie Tolan's analogy, Is It A Cheetah?) when they've perhaps become accustomed to rabbits or zoo chow? A separate support class providing temporary scaffolding may help these students develop the needed stamina to be self-sustaining in their futures. To continue the cheetah analogy, this may be the wildlife rehabilitation center, preparing cheetahs and re-acclimating them to be reintroduced into the wild? Both AP classes and AP support may co-exist together, meeting a broad range of intellectual, developmental, educational, and societal goals.
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The thing is-- there is already an appropriate class for such students (those for whom AP is a real "reach").
Those are called "honors" or "college prep" classes. Part of the problem may be that Advanced Placement exams are relatively well-known while SAT Subject tests, which could be used to assess non-AP courses, are obscure. If a good physics course could raise the SAT Physics Subject test scores of its students from say 300 to 600 (the scale is 200 to 800, the same as for SAT Reasoning), this would not qualify them for college credit, but it probably would raise the chance that pre-med and nursing students pass the non-calculus-based physics courses they need get into medical or nursing school. This likely helps them more than getting 1's (the lowest score) on AP Physics B.
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Joined: Apr 2013
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In addition to contributing to class discussions, gifted students contribute to the reputation a school has for having smart graduates, which draws employers and therefore students. Their higher SAT/ACT scores boost the schools' USN&WR rankings. The higher a school's ranking, the more it can charge in tuition, which partially explains why non-top-tier schools offer full and partial merit scholarships. Agreed! With athletes, the institution fields a team, they get ticket money, all pretty quickly, possibly freshman year. With intellectuals, the larger payback may be delayed until graduation when the alumnus performs well on the job, earns positive press and accolades which also reflect on the school, and possibly becomes a benefactor. Not to say that the enhanced level of thinking and class discussions and high SAT scores of admitted freshman aren't also valuable, but they are not cash-in-hand-today like sports ticket sales. I've seen high schools hold signing ceremonies for student athletes... not personally aware of any such fanfare or media event for intellectuals making their final decisions after considering their various acceptance letters. It may be happening, but I'm not aware of any. To recap: I agree that high achievers should not be shut out of AP classes. Current high school ranking methods may need to be refined. I think strivers can benefit from access to AP classes if they do not slow the pace or dilute the content (possibly aided by a support class as scaffolding). I believe students need to consider whether they are contributing, and know what their contributions are (this may be an interview question someday). Unfortunately schools may have an overemphasis and focus more on athletics, as compared with sparking an interest in being life-long learners with growth mindsets.
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I think we can all at times forget that sometimes it's just as important to understand early what we are NOT capable of as it is to discover what we're capable of.
If a student takes and AP course and discovers that they're incapable at this time of keeping up with the class it's going to show them one of two things, either it's going to be a wake up call and that student is going to know they'd best step up their game, or they're going to find out that perhaps the subject isn't a wise calling for them. Those are every bit as important as a student succeeding in the course and moving forward.
My eldest did an internship when he was a Soph. in HS at a large firm in engineering. He learned quite quickly he didn't want to be an engineer. It was time well spent and saved a lot of wasted time and effort in the pursuit of becoming an engineer.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/u...rs-into-the-advanced-placement-pool.htmlPulling a More Diverse Group of Achievers Into the Advanced Placement Pool By MOTOKO RICH New York Times November 26, 2013 ORLANDO, Fla. — Every year, more than 600,000 academically promising high school students — most of them poor, Latino or black — fail to enroll in Advanced Placement courses, often viewed as head starts for the college-bound.
Some of them do not know about these courses, which offer an accelerated curriculum and can lead to college credit. Others assume they will be too difficult. But many are held back by entrenched perceptions among administrators and teachers, whose referrals are often required for enrollment, about who belongs in what has long served as an elite preserve within public schools.
“Many teachers don’t truly believe that these programs are for all kids or that students of color or low-income kids can succeed in these classes,” said Christina Theokas, director of research at the Education Trust, a nonprofit group. Ms. Theokas said that if those underrepresented students had taken A.P. courses at the same rate as their white and more affluent peers in 2010, there would have been about 614,500 more students in those classes.
In an effort to overcome those obstacles, an increasing number of school districts, including Boston, Cincinnati and Washington, have recently begun initiatives to expand Advanced Placement course offerings and enroll more black and Hispanic students, children from low-income families and those who aspire to be the first in their generation to go to college. In the spring, lawmakers in Washington State passed legislation encouraging all districts to enroll in advanced courses any student who meets a minimum threshold on state standardized tests or the Preliminary SAT exam.
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“In regular classes, people are trying to distract you with music videos or saying, ‘Hey, look at this cat playing a piano’ on their phones,” said Humberto, 17, who emigrated with his parents from Ecuador when he was an infant and hopes to be the first in his family to attend college. “Whereas in an A.P. class, they will show you something from the text and say, ‘Hey, this is fun.’ ” It should be possible to have a serious class that is not an AP class! Some teachers say students who come from more educated backgrounds can help the new A.P. students. During an advanced calculus class at Freedom High one morning, the teacher, Amanda Kraemer, circulated among student groups of four working together to solve quadratic equations. Most of them, she said, did not have college-educated parents. But peer grouping, she said, “gets kids who come in with a lot of skills to solidify them by helping other students.”
Ms. Kraemer’s approach seems to work: Last spring, more than 90 percent of her students received a passing score on the most rigorous A.P. calculus exam. Students who have not mastered quadratic equations should not be in any calculus class, much less an "advanced" one. The students who have mastered precalculus should be taught calculus in calculus class, not pressed into tutoring algebra. It is difficult to believe that a calculus class where many students have not mastered quadratic equations has an AP Calculus BC pass rate of 90 percent, unless the group work extended to the exam itself.
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In the spring, lawmakers in Washington State passed legislation encouraging all districts to enroll in advanced courses any student who meets a minimum threshold on state standardized tests or the Preliminary SAT exam. I agree wholeheartedly with the above. Familial income should have no bearing whatsoever on whether or not a child ought to be in the AP track (and there are prejudices here among teaching staff) but strong academics have to be essential.
Become what you are
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