Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion High achievers shut out of AP courses

Some may enjoy seeing what the college board shares about its planned changes. A quick web search shows much information freely available from CB. Information at this link indicates implementation in 2014-2015, and provides many resources and other links - http://advancesinap.collegeboard.org/english-history-and-social-science/us-history

While many of us learn about a topic, I would encouraged parents to realize they are empowered to research and learn directly from the source. For example, in reading the source documents here, I learned that some high schools are teaching AP US History as a two-year course.

Great point. I agree with respecting individual readiness/ability as preparation. This flexibility may be important to prevent a future bottleneck with too few seats available in the pre-AP prep classes.

At the same time, I was personally moved by this statement in the article
She is reaping the benefits of challenge, known to prevent development of what another poster recently termed habits of ennui. She is expressing a growth mindset. Not to say that she has ever believed one only needs to enroll or show up to be successful, but this may be her antelope... the thing which motivates her to run (reference to Stephanie Tolan's Is It A Cheetah?). While believing that she may need this opportunity, not every average student may benefit. So much depends upon one's mindset.

The practice of rationing seats and having too few seats may be an area to focus on in crafting a solution: Successful businesses are those which respond to changing consumer demand for goods and services. It seems schools could do this as well. There are many AP courses, and students may be interested in and well prepared for taking several. While scheduling logistics may preclude a student from taking every AP they may be prepared for, this ought to be the exception as supply of class sections could increase to meet demand.

The article says "supporters see equal access [to AP courses] as an educational right". The Education Department investigated a school district in Alabama over this and recently reached a settlement.

http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...t-lee-county-ala-school-district-equal-a
U.S. Education Department Reaches Agreement with Lee County, Ala., School District on Equal Access to Advanced Placement Courses, High–Level Learning Opportunities for African American Students
SEPTEMBER 10, 2013
I don't think the Federal government should micromanage how many AP courses are offered in high schools and how students are placed in them (as long as the criteria are race-neutral).

I do believe the inequities need to be examined and addressed, but unfortunately by the time a student is old enough to take AP courses, the time may have passed. The inequities begin in the home before a child hits school and our system has danced around the problem of low SES and subsequent deficiencies for much too long, seemingly grasping for this bandaid then that bandaid, never really catching a true remedy.

We avoid the real problem because there's no easy solution and no money to be made from it.

The current debasing of academic standards leads to universities like Dartmouth refusing to accept 'advanced credit' classes as worthy:-

Dartmouth from 2014 onwards will not give credit for AP classes...

It is worth noting that even IB and A-level courses have also been rendered worthless by the implementing the 'Feel Good Curriculum'.

Sometimes, I wonder how I missed the 'meteor shower' that apparently blinded almost everyone else...

Interesting. How much of that decision do you think is about money?

Equal opportunity does not mean equal results. Here is an analogy to sports, because people are inclined top accept differences among individuals athletically: Each Olympian may have equal opportunity to win, they may have equal access to the ice, running track, or ski slope to demonstrate their strength, endurance, and skill. What differs is the individual, including their qualification times... or whether their best efforts did not qualify to make the team and they will begin applying their accumulated grit, resilience, and perseverance to other endeavors.

Instilling the growth mindset and a sense of empowerment from taking personal responsibility for their educational successes and failures, and offering pre-AP courses to sample the rigor and determine areas of interest may be helpful. Developing a library of kid-friendly books about various careers may also help students develop the skill of thinking long-term about their future rather than focusing on today. Learning to develop and revise plans is a life skill which some learn by osmosis and others may benefit from direct teaching.

Encouraging students to look at the websites of various colleges to see what courses are typical for various degrees, create a sample schedule for freshman year, then read the course descriptions for each of these courses may be an eye-opening assignment to manage their expectations. Collecting this information into a report folder to present to the class may help each student see their middle school and high school courses clearly as mapped to their planned future course of study. Having this as a yearly assignment throughout middle school and high school may also demonstrate that refining scheduling is a reiterative process, and that different students have created different schedules or paths to their goals. This may be their antelope, sparking their desire to run at full speed (reference to Stephanie Tolan, Is It A Cheetah?)

Our inner city schools are an absolute treasure trove of untapped potential, in need of antelopes, being fed zoo chow.

That's because the *problem* is low SES.

"The daily pressures and stresses of poverty take up so much mental energy that it reduces cognitive function. According to a new study, published in Science today, being preoccupied with money can cause low income people to suffer a drop in IQ of 13 points on average. A few comparisons highlight how severe that is. That difference in IQ is about the same as the gap between a chronic alcoholic and a normal adult, according to The Atlantic. It's comparable to the cognitive drop people see when they've just pulled an all-nighter."

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/08/31/chronic-poverty-can-lower-your-iq-study-shows/

Agreed. It is my understanding that by kindergarten, some child may have a word gap or vocabulary deficit of thousands of words. Reading to children from birth and talking with them about their day are said to be ways to help increase their word power. If I recall, this was in contrast to having conversation with children consist of directing or correcting their behavior.

Some see the same resigned underachievement among low SES as among the gifted, steeping perfectly good kids in a lack of opportunity when they may benefit tremendously from having new things to think about, and someone to talk these things over with. A visit to the library, a walk in a local park or nature center, free programs at local zoos, parks, museums, even reading the garment hang tags or food nutrition labels when shopping in the store, making lists of questions they'd like answers to... may be within reach. If legos are not available, read about origami and build with paper. There is never a time to give up.

Agreed. We may also avoid the problem because the family is sacred: Families of all types may believe they are doing the best they can; They may resist what they may see as interference from outsiders. Families may believe that if they love their children that is enough, and may be hesitant or wary to trust information from other sources, warily questioning motives. When one child begins to rise, they may experience the same lack of support that a gifted child may face, and feel tricked or trapped possibly believing they were better off before someone opened the proverbial Pandora's Box. When a rising child makes an inevitable mistake, they may be ridiculed, same as a gifted child. They may attribute the lack of support to differences in SES or ethnicity, when it may be strictly IQ/achievement based. Meanwhile ALL achieving children may feel they are outside their culture, and are searching for a new culture of like-minded intellectual peers. This is one reason why it is so important to reach out and realize the commonality of experience, rather than feel isolated by one's experience.

Meanwhile, families may feel, "Don't meet trouble halfway." Many families want to be solidly in the center of a movement, the inherent altruism of being on the leading edge as an acknowledged high-IQ family may be exceedingly uncomfortable.

None of this is to say that gifted children and low SES are mutually exclusive; giftedness occurs in every demographic. Some may draw this as several overlapping circles: various SES, ethnicities, levels of IQ, levels of achievement, mindsets, opportunities, etc. Comparing drawings and beliefs of how much different areas overlap, based upon each person's unique experiences may be an interesting conversation starter for an in-person event. Ruby K Payne has researched and provided information about identifying giftedness in poverty. I believe she was a pioneer in this sensitive subject, there may now be others illuminating this important area of study.

Yeah, well, I'll reserve my enthusiasm for when I've seen what those "revisions" will actually entail.

As it stands, I will say that my DD has completed two AP classes-- Physics B and Literature-- with flying colors, and she is currently enrolled in two others-- Stats and Composition.

She EMPHATICALLY enjoyed the pacing and depth of both previous courses. She is a student who pretty much CANNOT memorize her way out of a paper bag. I have to say here, having seen both courses up close and personal, that the sheer VOLUME of content means that the pacing is the only thing that she's ever had (as a PG learner) that has even come CLOSE to being suitable for her.

But then again, as noted, she wasn't memorizing, and it's probably not correct to move any high school course (outside of magnet schools) at that kind of pace, because any students at LOG less than HG+ are probably going to be stuck with memorizing or FAILING the material.

Her Physics course started with 20 students. Only 5 of them finished the year. The two juniors (of which my DD13 was one) are both headed into STEM fields, and are probably the top science students in their graduation year. Literature, similarly, there were about 25 of them at the start, and only 12 of THEM finished the year.

Honestly, if they're open-to-all, that's about the kind of attrition rate that seems suitable to me. Everyone is welcome to try, but the class is what it is, right?

I'm not too enthusiastic over "redesign" at College Board's hands-- not having seen what Common Core architect David Coleman seems to be implying about college "readiness" and suitability in other places.

I'm guessing that it MAY mean exactly the sort of watering down and focusing on "core skills and objectives" that have made a lot of secondary coursework fluffy and useless for GT kids. Oh, sure-- it's more accessible. But that does sort of miss the point that not everything in life IS easy enough for "everyone."