Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion EXPLORE/Duke Tip...should we bother?

Well, I'm not impressed with the WATS thing at this point. I really don't think we need them for either part of what they offer, which is the SAT/ACT testing and summer programs. The programs are offered through Colorado School of Mines, and you don't have to be signed up with talent search for those (just have to have lots of money, urgh). They push the testing through them, but you don't have to be signed up with them for young-age testing, either. In a couple of years, perhaps they would be useful, when it could help to keep the scores from being reported later on -- but under 13, they purge the scores at the end of the academic year unless you request otherwise, so I don't need WATS for that. The lady told me I was wrong (she did say she would check, but she didn't think so) about that.

It's possible, and I'll have to check and see, that WATS may have scholarships to the programs that we couldn't get anywhere else. That's about it, if that's the case.

Point well taken. On the other hand, the two are often used interchangeably as in this article by the National Bureau of Economic Research: http://www.nber.org/digest/jun03/w9307.html Gaming is sometimes also used as a euphemism for cheating, or in celebration when the cheater has not been caught and has gotten away with it, or has exploited a loophole not yet addressed by the rules.

Understood. The point originally made was the distinction between an achievement test (OK to prep and ACT/CB provide questions from past exams for this purpose) as contrasted with an IQ test (intended to measure native intelligence and prep may invalidate results).

In closing, looking back at the OP's question, it seems most respondents have been quite positive about the value of the experience of participating in an out-of-level test.

SAT scores are purged at the end of the year if you are younger than HS (so if you are 10, but you report that you are in 9th grade, the score will likely be kept). While my kids did not take the ACT, I hear kids say that their 7th grade scores still appear on their ACT account when they are in 12th.

If you want to use the SAT scores for a program later on, you might want to sign up through the program (CTY, TIP, WATS). You will have the scores sent to them so they have the official report. I don't know if they will accept a paper report from a test a few years old (and the score was not stored).

Also, the CB and ACT have become more security aware in the past year or so and require photo ID. I think they shouldn't require it for a younger kid, but they might. The testing programs supply paperwork which allows kids to get through the check-in process without ID.

Yes, SAT says no photo for under 13, not needed and don't send one, and ACT appears to want photo ID but accepts school IDs.

ACT says you can choose which test date and location's scores to send to colleges, so presumably you would just use the later one (if it was better, of course). The scores would still be there, but they wouldn't go anywhere you didn't want them to. Theoretically.

One thing I found disturbing about the WATS presentation -- she was explaining how they help you to understand where your child's test scores are in relation to other gifted kids in the region, as opposed to in relation to the whole nation of kids who are required to take the tests regardless of their ...inclinations, I suppose. She had this "apples to oranges" thing, saying that if you get your young gifted kid's score (on the ACT) and look at the whole nation's scores, you think, "my kid is a wizard", or you get the score (on the SAT) and think, "my kid's not as smart as I thought", but if you get their score report comparing to the population of young gifted kids in the region, it puts it in perspective for you. Reasoning being, ACT test takers are mostly required by schools to take the test, so it's everybody regardless of college aspirations, intelligence, interests, etc., and your kid's score looks better by comparison. SAT is mostly college-bound, intense students, so your kid's score looks worse by comparison.

But even if you accept the premises of who takes the tests and why, it's not graded on a curve! Your kid's score is the same no matter who else takes the test or why. I didn't argue, but I just couldn't quite see the logic. I may have explained it badly here, as it didn't all stick in my head.

SAT doesn't report raw scores, just like IQ, they report their own variation of standard scores where 500 pts is the 50% mark and 100 pts is one standard deviation. The meaning of the score depends on the population sample they used to normalize the data. SAT uses a sample based on their target test takers, i.e. college bound students.

I was trying to see how her argument plays out... but with no official basis for the self-selected same age, locally gifted taking the test I don't see any conclusion to be reached from the comparison they are offering.

Say what? So they do grade on a curve, then?

I was going off of the practice/study book we were using over the summer before DS got sick of it -- it had a calculation method using raw score, (let me think now) number correct times ten, minus 1/4 of number missed times ten, nothing for ones not answered at all. I think I said that right. I assumed that was how the SAT was scored. I never took it, myself, and I have no idea whatsoever how the ACT is scored, but I'm not impressed with either one of them if they grade on a curve.

I think they need to be graded on a curve because one SAT/ACT test administration could be more difficult than another. If you scored the test strictly on a percentage correct basis, then had colleges compare kids who took the tougher test with kids who took an easier one, the comparison is unfair.

Grading on a curve for these tests doesn't mean the same thing as grading a math class test on a curve. In fact, to get an 800 on the SAT math you need to get all 54 questions correct. The math curve is harsh - my eldest got two wrong and skipped one question - that earned her a 730. When she took the ACT the math curve was better - two wrong out of 60 questions and that was a 35 (36 is the highest score). The reading curve was harsher - one wrong out of 40 was a 34 (could not get a 35 on that ACT test).