Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Getting into college

Ren, I'm not knocking Harvard--I've never been there. But then there are lots of other colleges that you haven't been to that are just as worthy of your consideration.

Yes, it depends on the kind of college experience you are looking for. I'm just trying to say that there are good experiences for gifted students to be had outside the Ivy League.

By the time I graduated from Linfield I had done original research with my math advisor for my honors thesis, published a paper with a physics prof on thermionic projection microscopes and studied abroad in Austria. The professors at Linfield are involved with student research to a degree that I have not seen at major universities. For me, it was like heaven to have all those wonderful mentors at my disposal

I would say that rather than crossing Harvard off your list of options for your DD, add to your list! There are so many great schools for a gifted student to choose from. Don't limit your choices based on prestige.

Ren-

I think you have made a good argument about finding a school with intellectual peers, but there are probably 50 other schools where the kids are just as bright. It's great that DH had a positive experience at Harvard, and that is a good reason for your dd to consider applying. But in the end, it should be your daughter who makes the decision about where she goes and what she chooses to study.

Cathy - I'm with you on the ivies. If they work for you and you can afford them (particularly for an undergrad degree), more power to you. They are obviously wonderful schools, but you can get an equally good peer group and experience in many, many other schools depending on what you're going into. Unless my child was looking at an incredibly good scholarship situation, I wouldn't encourage them to go to an ivy for undergrad work.

I went to the Institute of Technology at the U of MN. I thought it was a great tech school. I loved the diversity there. There is something for everyone. I know nothing about liberal arts at the U of MN, but the tech areas were certainly full of GT people. It definitely felt like "home" to me.

In the end, I think DD makes the decision, not me, where she applies. If to 75 schools, or 3, though I think I would be pushing for more. But I would never tell her where she should go, apply or anything...unless... like nephew who went to U of Colorado to ski and deal drugs. If there was a situation like that, then I would intervene. I wouldn't pay.


Ren

Nodding head - I'll insert my own (shameless undergrad) plug for Occidental College (also a liberal arts school).

Cathy - I looked at Claremont for undergrad (part of the Cal Poly community of schools) - but settled on Oxy (Occidental) which partners with Cal Tech - only b/c the commute was shorter . Berkeley is a great school - my DH went there too. I'd be tickled if DS wanted to go there. Shoot... I'd be happy if he went anywhere that gave him scholarship $.

This is utterly anecdotal, and a second-hand anecdote at that, but according to a friend who taught a similar writing course for all 3 basic types of university settings (big state school, SPLA school, and Ivy), the students at the Ivy were the worst she encountered. Here's why:

The proficiency of the writing at the Ivy League was about the same as the level of writing of any incoming freshman, she said. No worse, yet not better enough to note either. Still, the majority of her students at the Ivy thought they were God's gift to writing and had nothing to learn. She said they were full of attitude, but were in reality no more proficient and appeared no smarter than her other students. Because of the attitude, they often left the class as *worse* writers than the students she saw at the SPLA and big state schools. After all, if you think you have nothing to learn, you usually don't learn anything.

This observation has less to do with the school than the student, obviously. But I think that if we're talking about who you're surrounding yourself with at college, then a student body with an attitude so privileged as to get in the way of learning would seem to me to be a relevant factor. By college, I think it's less important to be surrounded by brilliant people and more important to be surrounded by people who want to learn.

IMHO, if you want to run for president, then you'd better be at an Ivy! :p If not, then find a place that suits your interests and personality. Ignore the hype.

In my own experience, I saw a similar privileged attitude among many of my fellow students at the expensive SPLA school I attended for my undergrad years. It's just a theory, but I suspect that at most universities, the price tag is inversely proportional to the attitude...

This is why I liked Oxy - my classmates wanted to learn, were bright, and not pretentious. I was told that economic snobbery exists there, but I didn't see it. Perhaps I was oblivious. I was paying my own way and more focused on getting my money's worth.


There's definitely ego and a sense of entitlement where I go to school now. I wonder if that's law school in general. Shrug. I don't have time to associate with fellow classmates that rub me the wrong way. Besides, snobbery makes me wrinkle my nose in displeasure.

Ren

Tuning waaaay back from university issues, about which I definitely have strong opinions, I keep thinking about your DD's elementary choices. Hunter is a terrific school and free -- but (shameless plug for family and brief alma mater until we moved west) Brearley is a terrific school. If money is no object, I would DEFINITELY recommend it. I went there, many of my cousins and peers, my Mother briefly taught there, my late (perfect, brilliant, accomplished, beautiful, filthy rich) aunt was the Chairman of the Board there for years (and I think in perpetuity).

Aline

I'm kind of torn on this one. I believe that almost every single person I encountered at my alma mater (Duke) would have had parents on this board (i.e. they were all absolutely amazing, brilliant, definitely HG+--exactly the community I'd love to find for my boys so they can talk with real peers, develop ideas, share interests). However, I was pretty miserable a lot of the time. I was so poor, working 2-3 jobs, didn't like the snobbery & racism (while I'm not African American, my roommate was and a boyfriend, and I was more punk than prep). I am definitely convinced the name of my college helped me get my first couple jobs and seems to make a difference of how people regard me (could be my imagination, but I don't think so).

My DH formed lifelong friends there and had an entirely positive experience, so it'll be interesting to see what DS's wanna do.

State schools here are very very good and essentially free for good students, but I really want my kids to go to school outofstate and maybe come back for grad school or other degrees.

As a young career person, I beat out Ivy's with a State school degree to obtain my first real job at Merrill Lynch in Chicago.
My hiring manager didn't care where I went to school; he was interested with how much money I could bring in and what I could do with it.
Admittedly, not having an M.B.A. from a fairly prestigous school limited my ability to obtain personal goals in institutional investments.
But seriously, I am wiped out trying to figure out the the h$%* I'm going to do with DD's for school NEXT YEAR. If I was overly focused on where they are going to college and when, I think I would totally lose it!