Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E

We thought our son was stronger in verbal than math, too. However, once he was given a scribe, he showed he has great strength in math. He is still better in verbal/writing which comes easy to him, but he has shown that math is not a weakness.

You mention calculation as a weakness, which typically is a weakness for visual-spatial learners. This was the same for our son. While calculations may be a problem, math concepts are not. Your son may be able to progress through the material conceptually and should not be held up because of occassional calculation errors.

As far as the school district not knowing "how" to scribe math, it is simple. You need someone to work one-on-one writing down the answer as your son says it. Once the scribe works with your son a few times, they will learn shortcuts and it will go much faster. The scribe can always slow down and make your son state things explicitly to verify comprehension.

What math are they currently working on? Long mult./division, problem solving? I'm curious to know what "surveying" strategies are, could you elaborate?

The disabled students services are only available if you can document your disability with a physicians note and/or occupational therapist evaluation. In the case of our son, his dysgraphia causes him pain, so he cannot write more than a few words at a time, and, of course, it is messy. Most cases of dysgraphia are as you described, where you can write, but it is very messy. As long as it is documented, then you can get support services if you request them.

It sounds like the school district is trying to help, which is great. The nice thing about disabled students services at communitiy college is that they bend over backwards to help and act as your advocate to your professors. They are also very motivating and nice. Remember that community college offers math classes starting at pre-algebra. Once your son is at that level, I recommend you enroll him in your local community college for math only and see how it goes.

--David E.

Mite (9 tomorrow!!!) does have an IEP and a medical diagnosis of dysgraphia and dyspraxia (and graphomotor dyspraxia) currently.

The math teach is teaching him to survey the page and highlight when the question style changes (ie if he was doing subtraction and now will be doing addition or story problems), highlight action words and identifying words (ie give more or difference) and a couple of other things I can't remember offhand.

I'm going to start scribing his math at home and see what happens with his homework. I really do think his hands "lose" him in the output. He'll pop off the answer verbally then will write something different. It's strange.

We'll keep the community college in mind. We've a little ways to go to get there, but I know we will get there sooner than we'd expected 9 years ago tomorrow!! lol

Fite,
I can relate to hands and mouth on different circits. When DS10 was doing computer games on my lap, he would verbally beg for help as his hand would move the mouse towards the correct answer. Weird, hu?
Trinity

Isn't it though? It makes me think their little minds are running sooooooooooooooooooooo far ahead of the immature motor skills. Probably he had forgotten, but his hand was just then getting around to it.

I'm so glad for the advances in brain research that we are seeing these days. I think in the next 25 years it will be the knowledge of the mind/brain that will astound mankind. I think we will finally see there are brain differences and we must educate to those differences.

Fitin' Willa

Sorry to go a bit off-topic (Fite's comment on minds running ahead of motor skills made me think of this), but does anyone else have kids whose minds seem to race ahead of their SPEECH skills?

My DS8 is soon having a speech eval at school because of trouble with some of his "R" sounds. In discussing the referral with me, his teacher also mentioned that she notices DS sometimes gasps for air in the middle of his sentences, and that she is going to mention it to the speech therapist. I have noticed the same thing. As a toddler, it was even more pronounced; if DS had something long and complicated to say, he would literally talk himself out of air and have to take a deep gasping breath mid-word or mid-sentence in order to continue. Other people outside the family would comment on it, too.

I always thought it was just that he had a lot to say and the words in his brain were racing too fast for his mouth to keep up. But now that he's older, I see that he also tends to struggle and stumble over words during longer conversations--like if he's trying to describe something that happened at school. Not like a stutter, just stumbling over words and lots of pauses and repeats, as well as "uhs, ums, ers" as he grasps for the right words. Sometimes starting a word, then pausing mid-word, then re-starting it. He's also a very hesitant reader when reading aloud. I really notice it because DD12 and DD6 are both fast and fluent readers aloud.

Anyway, does this sound familiar to anyone? And is it any cause for concern, or just a developmental thing or even a "deep-thinking mind swirling with too much information" thing? I'm very curious what the speech therapist will say about it.


P.S. to Fite: sending early happy birthday wishes to Mite! I hope it's a fabulous day for him and your whole family.

It does sound a little like "apraxia". I know Mite's dyspraxia affects his reading aloud. And I do think for Mite it is the mind racing ahead. In school they have the kids do the DIBELS. His aloud scores for reading on the DIBELS are below age/grade level, but his comprehension scores are above age/grade level. So, that, imnsho, tells me he's reading faster than his brain can process the motor skills to read aloud.

For me, I have dyspraxia and apparently, from the stories I've heard about my childhood, I did not start speaking until I was over 3 years old. Now, I'm a bit like your son, I think. I speak very rapidly, run out of breath, and even lose my voice after speaking for too long of a period (more than 5 minutes). My neck literally gets tired when I speak. I feel my body is not processing the onslaught of words hitting the working memory fast enough to put them into efficient motor skills. I know my thoughts are leaps and bounds beyond my mouth.

One thing I think HELPS me, is music. I'm a vocalist and whistler and I play the harmonica (things you learn about WillaFite8^). I've had to learn how to take long deep breaths to sustain the air flow in each of those. I tend to breathe that way, too. Deep breath talk talk talk talk deep breath talk talk talk talk.

Thinking about your son and writing this right now, I'm wondering which came first, the breathing that way or the ability to do those musical talents. I do remember when I first took a voice lesson at the U of CO, the professor was shocked at how long I could hold my breath. I remember my swimming instructor in high school also being surprised about that.

So now I wonder if I have a high capacity to take deep breaths that I've developed to deal with my weird manner of speech.....hmmmmmmm....got me to pondering now GG!!1

Anyhow, let us know what the speech therapist says. I'm very curious.

Fite, thanks so much for your thoughts on this--very interesting. I will have to do some research on apraxia as I know nothing about it other than what I've gleaned here from your posts.

You mention yourself not speaking until age 3--my DS8 is very different in that regard. Of my three kids, he spoke the earliest. Amazingly early, especially for a boy--and extra especially for a preemie (I was told to expect all of his development to be slightly delayed; instead he did everything early). He said his first word at six months, spoke something like 25 words at 8-9 months, simple sentences by 11 months, long and complex sentences by 18 months, and they were clear and fluent too. (Example: "Mommy, what is that man doing over there by the car?" or "The girl in this book saw a funny monkey eating a banana at the zoo.")

His hesitation/stumbling in speech is not something I notice all the time. Most of the time it's not there, just sometimes. I notice it mostly when he's reading aloud. And the gasping for breath tends to happen when he's telling a "story" or describing something that is long and involved.

Also, he tends to make descriptions far more involved than necessary! For example, where another child might say "I fell and bumped my knee and it hurts a lot," this is what DS8 might say:

"I was starting to go upstairs because I wanted to put these Legos away in my room like you ask me to because I'm trying to be, be, you know, more responsible, and I was hurrying (gasp for air) because I didn't want it to take so long because there's a new Avatar on soon and I want to see it because if I don't see it tonight I don't know when it will be on again. I mean, I know they always show reruns but I don't (gasp for air) know exactly when and I don't want to miss it, and, and then [sister's name] yelled really loud to come see something in her room and distracted me, and she didn't need to yell because I was right there on the (gasp for air) stairs. I hate when she does that because she doesn't always have to be so loud and how many times have you and Dad told her that already? And, um, but, so she yelled and I was going upstairs and I had my hands full of Legos and I didn't, didn't, um, notice that someone (gasp for air) left a shoe on the steps, it was my shoe, one of my blue sneakers, not the old sneakers with, with the laces missing but those new ones, um, Nana got me before, before school started, I think, you know which ones I mean? Okay, and I don't know who left it there 'cause I know I put them (gasp for air) away like I'm supposed to. And then, uh, I, uh, I was yelling back at [sister] to wait a minute and then I tripped over the shoe and fell and (gasp for air) I hit my knee on the step, the third step from the top or it might have been the fourth, and I hit it really hard. I almost hit my nose, too, but I lifted my head up at the last second so, so, uh, it wouldn't be a big catastrophe and you'd have to take me to the hospital and get stitches (gasp for air) or something, like when you had that bike accident and hit your nose on the street. But I hit my knee really hard and I pulled up my pant leg and looked and there's some skin scraped off and it's bleeding a little, not a lot, but I (gasp for air) I think I should get a bandaid and some Neosporin, because it really hurts a lot, and I'll probably have a big bruise there tomorrow. And now there's Legos all over the stairs and I think [sister] should have to pick them up because she's probably the one who left my shoe there because I remember yesterday she was (gasp for air) using it as a boat for her pink unicorn, the one she got for Christmas in her stocking. This year, not last year. And can you get, um, get me the baidand because it hurts when I walk."

Whew!

GG

LOL!!! What a whirlwind of ideas! No wonder he doesn't have time to get the breathing into a rhythm!!

He sounds charming!

Cool GG,
But I can't picture what kind of responce that speech would bring in a school environment!
T

Had to laugh GG, you just described how my son talks :-)He is much older (amlost 12) but still haven't lost that talent for making everything sound so complicated:-) Sometimes, when I am absolutely not in the mood to listen , I just tell him to tell me the last sentence. Does you son talk VERY fast? Does he occasionally "skip" the verbal explanation to catch up with his thinking and then he has you lost completely? Mine does.
Trin mentioned school in regards to this - not helpful at all. Last year the teacher named my son "totally random" which pretty much summed him up :-) But my son eventally learned how to give good oral presentations .
As far as breathing goes - I have heard that swimming really helps (chuckle)
Ania