Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Religious questions

Yeah-- ouch. I know that superiority very well. Not cool.

My Goodall analogy was more about my own internal mechanism for keeping my cool when they are being intrusive toward me-- I certainly wouldn't be doing/thinking those things when I'm joining hands with them while they pray, I am silent and I bow my head when they bless a meal. I'm being non-intrusive because I accept those people for who they are. I use whatever works to keep my temper when they proselytize inappropriately-- because I understand that this is essentially a pillar of that faith, and that they are doing so because of what they believe in that faith. I don't want to create hard feelings with them-- but I'm also not going to pretend to believe something that I don't.

You know-- respectful-respectful. Sensitive to cultural norms.

For me it isn't about being PC, it's about being at peace with what I know is right for me-- but no longer being so arrogant as to presume to know what is right for THEM. There was a time when I believed that any belief was foolishness and that religion was toxic, and would have readily "proselytized" for my non-theistic worldview. At some point, I realized that my way probably isn't the right way for everyone, either.

KWIM?

Teens just aren't there yet-- on either side, honestly. The ones with deep faith think everyone could/should have it, and the ones without it are offended/superior. It's a developmental thing, at least partially.

We are teaching our children the whole "when in Rome" thing... when they are at their grandparents they will bow their heads and hold hands or whatever is expected and be quiet during grace. You think it's all hogwash? Great! Good for you! This little ritual makes your grandparents happy, so be quiet and let them have it.

As for the teen in question, I would try to not make it a fight, if at all possible. I'd prefer it, personally, if he would sit, quietly while the rest of the family did the ritual/ceremony/etc and then ate the meal with us. Being polite is a completely separate matter from personal faith, IMO.

If your DS is in a religious school, and he tolerates it for social reasons, I can see how it would be difficult for him to also tolerate a weekly ritual at home. It does appear that he's a nonbeliever immersed in a believer's world, and that could get a little suffocating... especially at a time when children are expected to begin aggressively asserting their individual identity.

I take it as a good sign that he still wants to enjoy the meal. I interpret that as meaning he is not rejecting family... just the ritual.

If the weekly ritual were all the religion he were exposed to, then in your place I might insist that he remain in place for the entire ritual meal, under the "We are a family, and we do this as a family" argument. However, given the extenuating circumstances of being in a religious school 35+ hours a week, I would give him a pass on the ritual portions of the meal, which seems convenient given your description of how it takes place. I would invite him to join the table after the beginning prayer is completed, and allow him to excuse himself before the ending prayer. I would also stipulate that he should do these things as unobtrusively as he can, and that commentary, verbal or otherwise, at the time is neither welcome nor appropriate. In this way, I think, you could both show tolerance to each other's views.

I am happy to see all the conversation my original post started! I have to admit I will need to reread the posts. I do plan to utilize all the info:)

MON- I have to admit that I agree with a lot of what you have said. I want my boys to learn about Catholism, so they will question and have to work things out. I also, liked your thought (simplified) of explaining how god made us and we cannot understand everything.

Aquinas- thanks for your references. I will look into these. At this point, ds mostly wants to know why. Why did god choose the make things the way they are? Specifically, why man and woman? (He knows things need to be that way to have children and continue civilization.) then he asked, why didn't he make the way we have babies differently? And specific details about how long did it take god to create earth vs. mars?

When my ds was 4, my grandfather passed. So, at that time he was very interested to learn about heaven. He especially wanted to know why he couldn't go.

Otherwise, in relation to religion, he believes what he is told. He is comforted by God and "Grampy" watching and protecting him. Yet, I am sure there will be more questions.

Melessa, most non-believers I know would NOT have experienced "comfort" in that belief system even at your DS' age. Only confusion because it didn't seem to be true, and everyone else seemed to believe it and find it comforting and expect us to feel the same way, too.

So it's possible that he's built for belief, if he finds comfort in it and is willing to accept as true those things that he is told.

It sounds to me as though he may be interested in "God as Mystery/Unknowable" as he matures, though. The "why" questions definitely lead that direction.

My observation is that 4yos are inclined to believe what their parents tell them, because their parents tell them. They're very trusting at that age. They'll question, sure, but it's more socratic knowledge-seeking than distrust of information.

My DD was close to 4 when, while discussing her cousin's tonsillectomy, she asked me what tonsils do, and I replied, "I don't know." DD was OUTRAGED. "How can you not know the answer to my question?!!!" She was quite certain I was lying, because she believed I knew everything.

It sounds like you could easily take the discussion into trinitarian territority, and talk about how human unity in marriage mirrors Trinitarian unity through the unitive and procreative aspects of marriage, the duality of the human nature as biological and spiritual. Personally, I would talk about how God is love, and he wanted to create a channel for his love to be expressed, and take it from there with the "sonhood/daughterhood" of humanity.

I think a lot of the answers will necessarily be "we can't know for certain", like how long it took to create Earth, Mars, etc. On that front, you could discuss the interpretation of the Genesis creation story as a story of the soul's birth, and not necessarily literal physical creation. It might dovetail nicely into a discussion of how biological evolution and spiritual creationism dovetail and aren't mutually exclusive. This link is great, as is the encyclical "Theology of the Body".

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j.../documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_19790912_en.html

These are exciting questions to think about answering!

In your place, I'd want to ensure my DS was comfortable with asking more open ended questions down the road and appreciating that our knowledge is finite. I wouldn't hesitate to link the theology to science, like evolution and the Big Bang Theory, because it's never too early to learn that science and theology answer questions on different sides of the same coin.