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He says he "tricked" the kid into playing with him and the kid doesn't like him.

"Tricked" here may be a child's way of expressing that he adapted to a different (well, slightly different) persona in order to bridge social gaps with another person.

The underlying issue is why this feels like being "fake" to him. Some people are definitely just made to feel that way, but you're right to be concerned about it. It certainly doesn't make for a happy or fulfilled life, that outlook.

It's also possible that his assessment of "trickery" could be an early expression of imposter syndrome. If he's highly perfectionistic, that might be what is going on with his rigidity, too.

We have also been told by professionals that symptoms of anxiety can mimic symptoms of ASD. However, I have to agree that your description does make me think ASD as well.

A lot of kids on spectrum are like this-- the rigidity is very socially isolating. Our ABA therapy program focused for ages on how to be flexible and how to be a good loser, how to join others' games and enjoy them even if it wasn't your first choice. These are key skills for making and keeping friends.


Far be it from me to say your DH and psych are wrong-- I am just a random person you met on the Internet-- but our otherwise excellent pediatrician swore DS couldn't have autism, and he very clearly does-- just not the flavor of it she had encountered in her training and experience. We have also seen psychologists who are very invested in giftedness underplay disabilities as "quirks" of the gifted-- but we feel that only hinders access to appropriate supports.

So again, YMMV.

DeeDee

I was reading "I Am a Strange Loop" by cognitive scientist Douglas Hofstadter at lunch today, and he was talking about self-referential things and that made me think of this thread.

One factor that could lead to the "tricking" concept and 3rd person reference and a couple of other factors is if he is exeedingly introspective. If he basically sees himself looking at his own thoughts, then 3rd person would be a natural way to see that person doing the thinking. It can be a strong gift and a curse as well. As a kid through to around 14 I went in and out of a "way too introspective" self thing to the point that I greatly pulled into myself. I went longer with an anxiety of showing too much expression. My thinking would run like: if I knew I should smile to make someone feel at ease, but I was going to smile anyhow, then I would worry that I was actually manipulating the person and stop myself from smiling. I've mostly grown out of that.

Is he very good at describing his thinking and how he reached a conclusion? Can he talk through what other people are likely thinking?

Just another possible lens to consider.

I think you have to be really careful following advice from strangers on the Internet, so totally feel free to ignore me! But I think it's also really hard to get a clear diagnosis for a gifted child with ASD who is not typical in their presentation, I have a gifted girl who loves people and makes eye contact and has Aspergers, ask me how hard that was to get diagnosed :-). And I also think this effect can be even more at play when one parent is a paediatrian - of COURSE he knows what asd looks like right? He sees it everyday and that's not your son... And I'm sure he's right, that your son is not like the vast majority of kids on the spectrum he sees. But maybe it's worth finding a 2e specialist and asking them? Someone who knows what highly gifted plus ASD looks like?

Thanks these are all helpful points of view. I am going to the psych tomorrow and I will talk to her about this. The psych spends the first 15 minutes giving me strategies to deal with my son, then we spend some time with him, then I leave and they talk. He really likes seeing her and I think she is helping somewhat.

Zen Scanner, I think some of that is going on with my son. He told me once that he thinks "100% differently" than everyone else his age.

Howler, your post makes sense to me. My son is very concerned with being fair, and maybe his sense of fairness is somehow engaged by the perceived fakeness.

Thanks all.

I found reading the Midiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children book very useful, also coupled with a British book "Disorganised Children", it's a bit harder to find so a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Disorganised-...4&sr=1-2&keywords=the+disorganised+child

This book in particular was useful because I could read most chapters and think "No... Nope.... Definitely not that..." and then there were 3-4 chapters where I was more in the range of "Hmmm maybe..." or "OMG yes!". And that process let me realise I did not think my DD had every disorder ever mentioned on the internet, and also gave me the language I needed to talk to professionals about what we were seeing that was not obvious when meeting a girl who was no obviously anything, but clearly had SOMETHING going on. I discovered a whole bunch of things she did (or had done) that I had no idea weren't normal too. Like incorrect use of personal pronouns during language acquisition. It took me months and months to teacher her the correct use of "I" and "You". Just think about that one for a while :-). How DO you explain who is "I" and who is "YOU" in any given conversation without using the very words that are causing the problem in the first place?

I talked to the psych again... she was not aware that he refers to himself in the 3rd person (I think he just does it at home). She told my son that he should stop that because it's a little weird. He said ok! This psych is pretty amazing... my son respects and listens to her. I am happy we found her. He couldn't care less that I have been saying the same thing to him for months.

She thinks the 3rd person stuff is just him playing around with language. She said that some autistic kids refer to themselves in the 3rd person, but not in the same way. In any case, we are continuing to take him to the ABA social skills group, he needs it.

He is very challenging and exhausting kid, but he has amazing positive qualities too. I'm just going to keep on keeping on.