|
1 members (lossstarry),
831
guests, and
17
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 471
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 471 |
Val and Aquinas, I totally agree with you. I read Kio Stark's book, Don't Go Back to School, and realized that darn I didn't need those master's degrees in the end to learn something, never mind the PhD work. Oh well.
Between the schools, families (as Val pointed out), overemphasis on standardization and testing (as Aquinas pointed out), etc. we've got a lot of tinderbox societal issues. So there's plenty of places for improvement. I do somewhat agree that even in an ideal school situation, it's debatable whether you will actually find out the way you learn or why you need certain knowledge/training/material.
Most schools, and I'll include colleges here, operate on a linear path with linear textbooks and linear tests. Well, that's fine and dandy but I'd say flipping burgers probably gives you more an inkling and a concept on how things operate in a chaotic, unpredictable manner despite the standardization within the fast food industry. And let's face it, not everything in life goes so linearly and is predictable with empirical standards and measurements.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,513 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,513 Likes: 1 |
No, HK, you're not being hard-nosed. I nodded my way through your post. If we expect little of students and employees throughout their development and reward dependence, an incomplete skillset, and immaturity then it's unsurprising that that's what we'll get. Life doesn't come with a safety net.
What is to give light must endure burning.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007 |
Of course they DO learn that anyone that needs to learn those trivial things is irrelevant. Such people and their concerns are largely beneath them anyway. So that part is fine. Until it isn't, of course. "Until it isn't" certainly happens when you need the $2,000,000 book of business to remain employed with your firm.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7 |
Employers ask for this problem when they insist on a specific list of skills, task experience, and certifications/degrees instead of asking for soft skills. Smart people who do not have the requisite skill set are rejected in favor of the mediocre mind with the skill set, even though the smart person could probably master it all in a short time and thenceforth be much more valuable than the mediocre person. That's what they get too by having an HR person, rather than an expert in the field, do the initial cull. I have no sympathy for employers who can't find good employees. They don't try very hard.
Secondly, the increasing emphasis on education as a means of preparing for a job rather than as, well, education is a big part of what is causing the problem of new graduates unprepared for a workforce that demands creativity and thinking on the fly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,299 Likes: 2
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,299 Likes: 2 |
Hmm.
I've been thinking about the job situation in the US (possibly elsewhere, but I don't know enough about other economies to say). for a while. I think that a huge part of the problem is that manufacturing jobs and other skilled labor jobs have been shipped overseas. So people who would otherwise have taken union-type jobs now have no other choice but to seek white collar jobs. This fact is probably driving the everyone-must-go-to-college mindset. People have no choice: there are fewer jobs requiring skilled labor, ergo many people must move into white collar jobs or work in relatively unskilled and poorly-paid service jobs.
So it's really no surprise that employers have trouble finding "good" employees. There probably aren't enough intelligent people to fill them all and the employers may be doing the best they can to find people who can do the work.
I'm not saying that the other factors we've discussed here aren't also problems. I'm just saying that what I've described is one more (big) problem.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007 |
So it's really no surprise that employers have trouble finding "good" employees. There probably aren't enough intelligent people to fill them all and the employers may be doing the best they can to find people who can do the work. If you can train less intelligent people properly, then they can generally do the work in question. I wouldn't have believed this until I started dealing with the so-called educably mentally retarded. Pretty solid work histories in lots of cases.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856 |
But employers have pretty much shrugged off the idea that workers should be trained. They tend to look for the fully-qualified individual, which means experienced in their particular line of business, with their particular set of tools. Then they wonder why they get so few applicants.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,691 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,691 Likes: 1 |
I think the soft skills are a problem of parenting. Soft skills are not part of IQ. A project manager on a construction site needs great soft skills, anyone running their own business.
Kids developed soft skills when they were given money and told to go to the store to buy some bread and milk. And they were 6 years old. They navigated their way, knew how to cross streets figure out how much money was left over for penny candy.
I learned how to read a map when I started school. I learned I could get anywhere from anywhere, I just had to figure it out. Now we have GPS. I don't have to look up a word in the dictionary or research in the library. I have the Internet.
In the park last week DD was climbing a tree and having a whining tantrum because she was having trouble. I said you have to figure it out. Place your foot where you have friction and some support, place your hands where you can pull yourself up. Try this place, if it doesn't work, but you have to figure it out. I was really tempted to help her into the tree but I thought I have to stop the helicopter stuff. She has to learn to how to figure out solutions for the little things. Climbing a tree isn't about IQ, it is about problem solving.
All those little things in childhood are about problem solving. All those things we have taken away as helicopter parents.
Ren
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,228
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,228 |
Could someone please define "soft skills"? What is it about them that makes them "soft"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3 |
Could someone please define "soft skills"? What is it about them that makes them "soft"? Here is a heart-warming example of how soft skills helped someone get ahead: http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748704878904578537580549304820.htmlCEO Spotlight Barron's SATURDAY, JUNE 15, 2013 A Model Success By SANDRA WARD Long before becoming chairman and chief executive of Affiliated Managers Group, Sean Healey was a young Harvard law-school student with dreams of a career in academia. Then he decided that a solitary life spent pondering legal theory was not what he wanted. Seduced by the pitch of a Goldman Sachs banker promising an atmosphere of "brilliant, focused, and switched-on people," he accepted a full-time job with the New York investment bank, after serving as a summer associate there. He headed to the firm's headquarters to meet with the partners.
Whisked to the trading floor, he was presented to Stephen Friedman, known for his tough and intimidating presence, and who eventually went on to head Goldman. Healey stuck out his hand in greeting. Friedman immediately put him in a Russian headlock, a move in which Healey's head was tucked under Friedman's arm and locked in by Friedman's torso and other arm. To Friedman, a national collegiate wrestling champion at Cornell, Healey wasn't just any new hire, but a former Harvard wrestler and worthy opponent.
In seconds, Healey decided that escaping risked embarrassing his future boss. Staying put wasn't an option, either, for fear that Friedman would think he was a wimp. "Instead, I took a really hard grip on his arm, so it was hurting him to hold me," recalls Healey. "He eventually let me go, and we had our conversation."
It was the right move, allowing each to come out a winner.
"To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
|
|
|
|
|
