Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 433 guests, and 25 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Emerson Wong, Markas, HarryKevin91, Gingtto, SusanRoth
    11,429 Registered Users
    May
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4
    5 6 7 8 9 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 2 of 2 1 2
    SiaSL #160462 06/18/13 01:46 PM
    Joined: Jul 2011
    Posts: 312
    D
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    D
    Joined: Jul 2011
    Posts: 312
    SiaSL, when I say universal, I don't mean that it is one method that is taught the same everywhere. I mean that it is one method that can be applied universally to a type of problem, no matter what the specifics of the problem happen to be.

    Val #160464 06/18/13 02:07 PM
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    I probably would have found value in the article if they hadn't wrapped it in such inflammatory, nonsensical rhetoric. War on math? Progressive? I feel like I need a shower.

    This is why I don't read opinion pieces.

    Dude #160478 06/18/13 04:52 PM
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Val Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Originally Posted by Dude
    I probably would have found value in the article if they hadn't wrapped it in such inflammatory, nonsensical rhetoric. War on math? Progressive? I feel like I need a shower.

    This is why I don't read opinion pieces.

    I'm thinking you haven't been following this story? "Math Wars" is a term coined years ago (a decade or more, I think). It arose out of parental frustration with programs like Everyday Mathematics. A large number of mathematician/engineer/scientist types challenged the reform curricula in California and gained high visibility. They lobbied hard for a return to traditional methods. With the publicity came the term math wars. AFAIK, the mathy types didn't make it up (they used the term mathematically correct). Check the Wikipedia entry.

    "Progressive" is a term the reform crowd uses (I opened up several chunks of comments and found the term 50 times).

    Last edited by Val; 06/18/13 05:35 PM. Reason: More detail added
    Val #160509 06/19/13 06:50 AM
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 2,856
    Whether referring to it as a war is a new development or not, it's still language designed to shut down the rational part of the brain.

    The commenters are simply using the language they've been presented with. "Progressive" and "progressivist" show up 14 times in the article.

    Val #160522 06/19/13 08:29 AM
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 1,478
    Z
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Z
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 1,478
    Interesting to note that an article that begins "The Faulty Logic" might as easily be renamed "An Introduction to Logical Fallacy by Example." As in Dude's observation, repeating progressive is a slick ad hominem argument.

    One bit in there that gets me is:
    "the most efficient — and most elegant and powerful — algorithms for specific operations"
    I think that is quite a distortion of the classic algorithms which strike me as foolproof and consistent but neither elegant nor efficient.
    My proof:
    49,999 + 7 =


    I believe the investigations type philosophy is in the right place, but the systems are likely flawed in their execution by being too dogmatic. You can't train creativity or creative problem solving. Forcing a kid to keep guessing at solution approaches until they match the fixed set in the answer guide is a fail.

    Reflecting on other threads perhaps in the ideal execution of "reform mathematics" requires both a certain amount of talent in the instructor as well as the learner to realize its intent.

    Val #160533 06/19/13 09:07 AM
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Quote
    I believe the investigations type philosophy is in the right place, but the systems are likely flawed in their execution by being too dogmatic. You can't train creativity or creative problem solving. Forcing a kid to keep guessing at solution approaches until they match the fixed set in the answer guide is a fail.

    Frame-worthy. That's the problem in a beautifully-put paragraph. cool

    While you can't TRAIN creative-problem solving (or, for that matter, 'critical thinking skills' either, IMO) using any particular method...

    you can crush their development in students by stifling exploration. You can encourage and nurture those things and allow room for them to grow.

    But that is never going to be possible in a system which has ground itself into a corner of testing-testing-testing and preparation for the same, all in the cheery, (but futile) hope that Every Child Can Master Algebra by Adolescence! which assumes that teaching mathematics requires the same approach as teaching arithmetic.







    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Val #160537 06/19/13 09:25 AM
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 423
    O
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    O
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 423
    TBH, I wouldn't mind the testing, testing, testing so much if they DID something with it other than turn it into state / federal offices as a requirement. Testing isn't a bad thing if you use it to actually further the education of the student with feedback and follow up. A GOOD test teaches in the process of analyzing what a student has learned and a good teacher knows how to analyze the tests to improve their own teaching as well as the student's understanding. Unfortunately, that's not what happens with the majority of testing these days and they're not written well enough to teach in the process of testing.

    Val #160541 06/19/13 09:56 AM
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Correct. There is formative assessment (which is what you were referring to, and is what good teachers have always used) and then there are the crazy-making summative assessment practices currently in vogue. "Instant feedback" isn't the same thing as useful feedback, which requires something more than yes/no on a multiple choice assessment or a peek at the solution (which only has about 90% probability of being completely correct in the best of modern texts) in the back of the book.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Val Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    A lot of the general mathematics pedagogy debate (not here; in general) seems to get framed around and either/or proposition. EITHER you teach algorithms OR you teach concepts. confused It's possible to teach both. I taught all three of my kids how to do arithmetic, and my lessons were always heavy on concepts.

    Last edited by Val; 06/19/13 11:09 AM. Reason: Clarity
    Page 2 of 2 1 2

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Beyond IQ: The consequences of ignoring talent
    by Eagle Mum - 05/03/24 07:21 PM
    Technology may replace 40% of jobs in 15 years
    by brilliantcp - 05/02/24 05:17 PM
    NAGC Tip Sheets
    by indigo - 04/29/24 08:36 AM
    Employers less likely to hire from IVYs
    by Wren - 04/29/24 03:43 AM
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/17/24 08:15 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5