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    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    I'm with you, Dude.

    (And with UM on the subject of the value of a great children's librarian.)

    We have had quite a few struggles with DD's reading level given that her reading level topped "college level" before she was 10, and clearly most content written at that level is flatly inappropriate for a child that age. Interest is also a problem-- she simply lack(ed/s) the life experience to really appreciate some of the material that she CAN read, and then again, 99% of her peers aren't reading at a high level for fun, either...
    really, even adult fiction isn't written at a college level. Everything "popular" is at about 6th-8th grade, it seems like.

    It's frustrating as all get out for me personally. Not that I worry about her reading Captain Underpants or anything else-- we don't control what she is permitted to read in any way.

    But I sure would like to encourage her to read for pleasure at a level more commensurate with her literacy level, and I'm at sea as to how to do that. Her interest level is fairly normative for 14-18 yo, but it's clear that her literacy isn't-- and going "older" (in publication dates) no longer works, because too many of the great works of fiction are definitely dated in ways that don't allow a teen to identify with them very well in the context of today's environment. I didn't realize just how profound that shift has been until I was skimming back through Catcher in the Rye this past year-- and I realized that the book (which I read at my DD's age and found timeless) is more or less a mid-20th century historical novel. It's becoming Pride and Prejudice, that novel.

    The publishing industry, unfortunately, sees all too clearly that the economics of publishing contemporary works at a high literacy level is.... not lucrative. In fact, teen-interest novels written at a 10th grade (or beyond) level? Losses. Right from the start. There's quite literally only a sparse handful of those books since 1990. Why would my teen want to read books that don't speak to teens, but to mature adults? She certainly doesn't want to read books with sexual content, and that eliminates about 65-75% of adult contemporary fiction, too.

    I've also been distressed by a phenomenon related to that in the posted article-- that of eliminating textbooks from instruction.

    This is evidently aimed at what is considered the "typical" learning style of modern students-- to reach them with short little multimedia clips and text no more than a paragraph or two in length. I only wish that I were kidding about that, unfortunately. So if students are not seeing larger amounts of text, why on earth would they become consumers of it as they get older? They won't, of course.

    Is it just me, or does all of this seem to be feeding a trend toward developing shorter and shorter attention span? My DH and I have found it both maddening and appalling. Maddening since this is not how our DD entered school, and appalling because we can see that it is WORKING to affect change in that same child. We really DID give them a 6yo with a two hour attention span, and they really have successfully reshaped her into an easily bored teen with a 5 minute attention span, who fixates on whatever seems entertaining.

    eek


    I would guess it has less to do with being lucrative and much more to do with too restrictive. I can't imagine being a publisher or an editor and telling a contemporary literary writer "oh, and make sure you're writing at a college level." Ds has been reading at this level for a couple of years now and as you know the pickings are slim and are mostly non-fic. And really I'm okay with that. We don't insist he read within his Lexile Level, and his LL is still growing.

    I'm all for having in-depth, intelligent discourse on literature in school, but I'm also aware that asking for college-level contemporary fiction is not altogether practical or reasonable.

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    I personally believe that if a book has an interesting idea the Lexile Level doesn't matter, in literature not necessarily technical information. That is as long as it is above 5th or 6th grade (I read DS9's books). I have found that most things I read today I could have read as a 6th grader. (I did attempt War and Peace and gave up. I attempted to read it a couple of years ago and realized I was right the first time.)And often the higher lexile levels are artifacts of the formality/archaic nature of the language used, case in point Pride and Prejudice.

    As far as the Hunger Games, I find that dystopian societies make for interesting reading and discussions. The depth of understanding of the concepts is not limited by the reading level. I find no redeeming value in DOAWK though. DS has been reading DOAWK books since K and this year I am banning them.

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    I don't know much about the hunger games trilogy but from what I have heard while the writing might be 5/6 grade the subject matter might not be. But I read Lord of the rings at about 11 and Watership Downs was fairly dystopian. I loved Shakespeare at 12/13 years. Then we all read the Virginia Andrews books at 14/15 and they were a bit icky. I have always wanted to read more of the classics but have had about a 30% completion rate so far.

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    This is very depressing... I think there's so much poor literature around that it's hard to find the gems (like Wildwood, as a PP mentioned) and schools are certainly not helping... My eldest DD (now 13) gravitated towards the classics by late primary school- absolutely loved greek myths and read Homer's Illiad and Odyssey at 11y/o, but now at high school the literature they're studying is so poor that she's become quite disenchanted by studying literature at all, and will now just re-read her old favourite books rather than tackle something new. If anyone has any suggestions for great literature/ literary gems suitable for a teen, that'd be great!

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    KADmom and Rocky make an interesting point. For Whom the Bell Tolls is lexile 840, and Pride and Prejudice is 1160. Part of the reason Dickens takes perseverance is because our current aesthetic is different. We aren't used to writing like that. If I had ever handed in a paper with as much twisted syntax as Austen, I would have done poorly. We value clarity. Austen's generation valued the flourish.

    I read P&P to my 10 year old daughter. The pay off was tremendous. The first time that Mr. Darcy proposed to Lizzie and she rejected him so fiercely, my daughter hid her face and squealed "Mom! Please tell me this has a happy ending!" I have read P&P several times and am a huge fan, but I do have to say that reading it out loud was difficult because of the length of the sentences.




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    Oh, and by the way, I HATE the lexile system. The Incorrigible Children of Ashton Place is 1000. Really?!?? It is an empty, silly book completely devoid of any important or original ideas. FWIW, there was much to not like about DOAWK, but I read all of the first couple to my dyslexic boy as he was beginning to read, and there was more authentic reflection of the human condition and the deep but complicated experience of friendship in that book than in many other books out there.

    I guess I am agreeing here with pp -- ideas matter. Or they should. I think leveled reading systems like Lexile may have contributed to the decline in reading.

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    Originally Posted by Jamscones
    If anyone has any suggestions for great literature/ literary gems suitable for a teen, that'd be great!

    The NPR article mentions "500 Great Books for Teens" by Anita Silvey, which has recieved good reviews on Amazon (she also wrote "100 Best Books for Children". Amazon's "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" feature shows similar books.

    Last summer there was a thread

    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....2470/How_to_Choose_Summer_Reading_f.html
    How to Choose Summer Reading for Students which mentioned Mensa book lists

    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/k_3.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/4_6.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/7_8.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/9_12.pdf .

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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Originally Posted by Jamscones
    If anyone has any suggestions for great literature/ literary gems suitable for a teen, that'd be great!

    The NPR article mentions "500 Great Books for Teens" by Anita Silvey, which has recieved good reviews on Amazon (she also wrote "100 Best Books for Children". Amazon's "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" feature shows similar books.

    Last summer there was a thread

    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....2470/How_to_Choose_Summer_Reading_f.html
    How to Choose Summer Reading for Students which mentioned Mensa book lists

    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/k_3.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/4_6.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/7_8.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/9_12.pdf .

    Thanks. These are great resources!

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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Originally Posted by Jamscones
    If anyone has any suggestions for great literature/ literary gems suitable for a teen, that'd be great!

    The NPR article mentions "500 Great Books for Teens" by Anita Silvey, which has recieved good reviews on Amazon (she also wrote "100 Best Books for Children". Amazon's "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" feature shows similar books.

    Last summer there was a thread

    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....2470/How_to_Choose_Summer_Reading_f.html
    How to Choose Summer Reading for Students which mentioned Mensa book lists

    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/k_3.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/4_6.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/7_8.pdf
    http://mensaforkids.org/ReaderAward/9_12.pdf .

    Brilliant! Thanks!

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    Warm thanks for the Mensa reading list!!! This was just what I needed. Thanks!!!

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