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    #160184 06/14/13 11:51 AM
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    Portia Offline OP
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    edited

    Last edited by Portia; 03/21/15 02:39 PM.
    Portia #160187 06/14/13 12:19 PM
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    22B Offline
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    Subject: Math Theorums
    Originally Posted by Portia
    I thought I'd turn to those who will get it. I'm getting blank stares in real life...

    The other day, DS and I were talking about the odds of winning the lottery. He asked how to calculate it, so we broke it down to smaller numbers (1-9 with 1 digit number, then 1-9 with double digit number, etc.). He immediately noted the trend. With 3 digit numbers, he gave his estimate. It was not the right answer, but very, very close. He instinctively knew you had to eliminate all the single digit and double digit numbers as you wanted a triple digit number.

    The immediate thought after that was he needed to see how equations were derived. The theorum and the proof to "prove" how to calculate the lottery odds. I haven't done that since high school and can't seem to locate the problem so he can work out what happens when n=1,10, 100, then n. I don't want to give him the formula and then work it out. I want him to come to his formula on his own.

    Help????

    ETA - forgot to say his primary math curriculum is EPGY. Just finished 3rd grade and taking a short break for the summer.

    I'm not sure what it is you're trying to prove or calculate here. But I just wanted to say that "theorum" makes me think of "Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!" grin

    Portia #160188 06/14/13 12:21 PM
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    22B is indirectly pointing out that "theorem" was misspelled.

    What are the rules of this lottery? For triple digit numbers for example, how do you win? Is it just a matter of guessing the right number between 0 and 999?



    Portia #160191 06/14/13 12:31 PM
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    Hi, can you use a permutation?

    very interesting question !

    Portia #160192 06/14/13 12:33 PM
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    Perhaps try combinations and permutations? There are formulas for this. Perhaps that is what the teacher had in mind for the students?

    If you child can come up with some similar approach, it can't hurt to go back and compare it with the aforementioned equations.

    Portia #160193 06/14/13 12:34 PM
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    You should also be able to find the derivations and math proofs you need online, including all of the steps to get to the final answer. Fun stuff!

    Portia #160195 06/14/13 12:38 PM
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    Originally Posted by Portia
    we broke it down to smaller numbers (1-9 with 1 digit number, then 1-9 with double digit number, etc.).

    Originally Posted by Portia
    you had to eliminate all the single digit and double digit numbers as you wanted a triple digit number.

    Originally Posted by Portia
    he can work out what happens when n=1,10, 100, then n.

    I don't understand any of the above, or how it relates to lottery odds.

    As for how to calculate the odds of a lottery, it depends on the lottery, and how it's set up. Let's use Powerball as an example, since it's the most common.

    Powerball uses 5 numbers 1 - 59, then the sixth number (the powerball) from a different set of numbers 1 - 35, so that the powerball number can be the same as one of the first five.

    Imagine the balls are all being drawn one by one. The first ball has a 5 in 59 chance of matching one of your selections, because there are 59 balls in the drum, and you've selected 5. Simple enough.

    The next ball coming out is one of only 58, and assuming you matched the first ball, you've only got four left, so it's 4/58.

    Next ball is one of 57, and you have 3 left.

    And so on...

    Then comes the powerball, which has an unalterable odds of 1 in 35.

    So, the odds of winning the powerball jackpot are 5/59 x 4/58 x 3/57 x 2/56 x 1/55 x 1/35.

    Looking at those numbers, it should then be pretty obvious how to construct the formula.

    Portia #160200 06/14/13 01:24 PM
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    I remember vaguely getting into proofs of such things in number theory in college. I do not remember it as a very pretty thing. Actually I just looked for one, check out the proofs for Bertrand's Ballot Theorem:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand%27s_ballot_theorem

    But I think at this level, it is more a question of deriving the formula in the way you approached it. From a simple case, out to the generalized. Like once he sees the 5x4x3x2x1 pattern and you can tell him there is short hand for it (5!) is pretty cool. Then you can find a probability reference somewhere that gives the formalized formula and he can see if it matches.


    Last edited by Zen Scanner; 06/15/13 08:12 AM.

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