Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion What's the Point? Busted meritocracy?

SialSL, I only wish I was deluded, I work with investors of all income levels and it seems to be a preoccupation of retaining wealth for the more wealthy.

Madeinuk, Universities are still a business (Not in the traditional sense) they compete for money, resources, talent, and students. You have some noble ideas, but the system in place will not support it. On government paying for higher education, I am not so sure about that. The current system for public education is broken, and no matter how much money is thrown at it, the system still does not work well.

Epoh, why is disparity a problem? Is there some unknown fairness issue, or do you believe that the rich get rich on the back of the poor? I would agree that great disparity can be used for political gain, by those that do not have wealth. BTW, love flat tax or consumption tax.

Dude, Good point about the WWII with the GI bill, timing can matter a lot. Glad we bought our home in the 90s, neighbor purchased in late 50s. Nice appreciation and great security. I wonder how much the percentages are for home ownership by decade. Loan availability is also a big part. Even credit cards opening up to the populace has affected the numbers. It’s never a very clear picture when comparing groups.

Jon, great article

Mark, Back to education and the mediocrity of our nation’s students. It’s funny that when I speak to the WWII generation how much more articulate and funny they are. Perhaps they read and wrote more and watched TV less. I have been reading about our nation’s founders and the depth of their understanding was incredible, but they were not the common man. I have also been reading a little of Ovid’s work from ancient Rome, funny some of same type of social problems today. Does this mean we should not try and improve things, no just that mediocrity is not a single time issue.

+1

I don't agree. Adequate money seems to work wonders. In communities where public schools have money, the results are often quite positive. Where can money go with proven results?
- Summer programs
- Smaller class sizes
- Better technology
- More skilled teachers (from salary and merit based increases)
- More gifted certified teachers
- Full time gifted programs

Just look at summer programs... some great research out there showing that low SES and high SES students make similar gains throughout the school year which are then lost over the summer by the low SES groups. We aren't really agrarian anymore. Year round school takes serious money, but can work and be a positive benefit for two income households in addition to learning outcomes.

Council Rock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_Rock_School_District

Or, Camp Hill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Hill,_Pennsylvania

Hey, look, a public high school valedictorian Nobel prize winner!

If a longer school year causes students to forget less over summer break, there should be less need for review in the fall, and teachers should be able to cover more new material in the school year. I would support a shorter summer break if paired with a system that shortens K-12 by one year -- after 11th grade students would go to college, trade school, or work. I would not support merely extending the school year without increasing academic standards in some way.

I disagree strongly with your point and agree with Edwin. In general, our system is broken. Many of the points you raise are mendacious talking points pushed by the educational establishment. IF they repeat them often enough, people start to believe them.

Throwing money at the problem doesn't make it better overall. Sure, summer programs are nice, but they're also dessert. The state of California spends over half the state budget on education, which is in the neighborhood of $50 billion ( link here). How much more do the schools need before they can say they have enough? A HUGE problem is mismanagement of funds. Please don't argue per-student spending: Catholic schools spend way less and get better results, and so do many other countries.

Countries with schools that are much better than ours have much bigger classes. Am in the middle of meeting a deadline right now and can't post links, but I've done so before on this board.

Technology is largely irrelevant to learning how to read or do math. I still don't understand the iPad obsession, TBH.

Teacher's unions resist merit pay as though it was akin to being forced to eat plutonium. Increasing salaries isn't the problem (again, no time to post links but some searching might turn up my old messages on this subject). As for paying them more to get skilled teachers, I also disagree. Teaching is a dumping ground for poor-performing students (look up SAT and GRE scores for future teachers; they are ALWAYS at the bottom). Paying them more won't solve the problem. The problem is a culture that discourages excellence overall (yes, there are great teachers, but those test scores don't lie).

Thanks, Jon. Good examples. The school district I went to is also a great example as it was a very top-rated school and it spent a lot per student. But unlike the confusing SES aspect for many public school results, my school district was exceedingly lower income as it was 75% of us came from the military base. And the government payed quite well per child to the schools.

Personally, I don't have a great source of mendacious talking points to form a belief about them and am forced to rely on research.

Then I am sorry to say (and I was a low SES student that this did not happen to) that we have to question the capacity for learning that those low SES students that appear to have lost what they learned during the year have.

Gross income is an incomplete indicator of SES for military families, though, because of the significant non-monetary compensations they receive.