Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion more on "Tiger Mom"...

I disagree. I think it's a learned ability, especially because there are strong social disadvantages to critical thinking, particularly for the very young. "Shut up and do what you're told!"

If it wasn't something to learn, we wouldn't have had people writing books on logic and rhetoric in classical times.

We teach our DD critical thinking through occasional ridiculous explanations her questions. This has had unexpected consequences... we've received the, "That's not real!" response when describing dinosaurs and the solar system.

In today's metaphysical lesson we learn that critical thinking has some drawbacks with respect to acquiring knowledge in general.

It's not a waste of money.

It's a great source of tax revenue because they pay it back with interest!

"Business has been good for the federal government when it comes to student loans.

Over the past five years, student loans have generated profits of $120 billion for the Department of Education.

And the latest projections from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) put the take from student loans for the 2013 fiscal year at $48.6 billion - helped along by a change in 2010 that eliminated the middleman and made the Education Department the direct lender for all government-backed loans.

It means the government will reap more in profits from student loans this year than any of the nation's largest corporations. Last year, for example, the most profitable company was ExxonMobil (NYSE: XOM), which reported income of $44.9 billion.

The money is rolling in partly because the Education Department has stepped up efforts to collect on delinquent loans, but mostly because the U.S. government can borrow money far more cheaply than the students to whom it is giving the loans.

The government's student loans now carry an interest rate of 3.4%, which has proved plenty lucrative.

But unless Congress acts soon, the interest rate on government student loans will double to 6.8% as of July 1. (The temporary 3.4% rate was supposed to expire last July, but last year Congress extended it for one year.)"

http://moneymorning.com/2013/05/16/how-student-loans-became-a-120-billion-government-bonanza/

I'll agree that there are strong social disadvantages to critical thinking.

And the place where those disadvantages exert their strongest influence is the very place where they ought not to - a modern American university campus.

I don't. We pay for things such as art, piano and tennis lessons that cannot be justified by financial benefit. However, the teachers charge us reasonable rates that they also charge others, because they don't ask for our financial data to see how much we can be gouged. When someone wants to charge me $240K (the full-pay price for four years of some colleges), yes I think hard about the financial benefit. Most parents do.

Yeah, that about summarizes my thinking on this question. Multiply that number by three kids (the youngest of whom is only 8), and then increase it by 10-15% if costs keep increasing like they have been, and I don't like those numbers. I don't like them at UC either. UC's numbers are lower, but not by much compared to 20 years ago and maybe not for long.

I ask myself if 8 classes over the course of 8 months, a shared dorm room and some institutional food are really worth $60,000. I ask myself if an equivalent education can be had for less (say, in Europe or Canada). My husband and I both attended colleges and universities in Europe for next to nothing. We both got excellent educations and we're both very employable.

I spent three years at a US liberal arts college. My primary degree is in history, but I minored in chemistry and then did two graduate degrees in biology. I understand the value of the humanities and the perspective that education gave me. I'm not advocating a college-as-certification position. I'm also not arguing that a brand name college is worth the cost for a degree in engineering but not history. I'm questioning the value of any degree that costs a quarter million dollars and climbing. There are other options.

Some being the key word in "some colleges," yes. It's a free market. You can always take your money elsewhere. If you're convinced that the cache of a $240k university is worth the expense, that's your choice.

Otherwise, I suggest you hold tight, because evidence is mounting that the tuition bubble is popping: http://www.businessinsider.com/college-bubble-has-burst-2013-5

I agree with Bostonian. Although at the rate of tuition acceleration, I am estimating 150K per year in 8 years for an top college. And I definitely wouldn't pay that for a liberal arts college. No way would that be justified.

We have all seen the press on the cost of college and salaries expected upon graduation. If I was buying a car or a stove, I would think about what I need it for, how long is going to be worthwhile, how much does it cost, compared it to others. I look at going to a liberal arts college like buying a Porshe. If you have the luxury of not caring about the outcome after, good for you. I am totally recommending an engineering degree for DD. I don't care what she ends up doing. You can use that degree for anything. But if she can't figure it out, she can always get a job.

That looks high. College costs have been rising faster than inflation by about 2 to 5% a year. Assuming a general inflation rate of 2% and college inflation rate of 7%, the $60K cost today would grow "only" to $60000 * (1.07^8) = $103,091 . A college inflation rate of 5% (slightly higher than recent college inflation) results in a future annual cost of $88,647. Here is some data from the College Board.

http://advocacy.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/college-pricing-2012-full-report_0.pdf

Trends in College Pricing, 2012

PUBLISHED TUITION AND FEE AND
ROOM AND BOARD CHARGES
Average published tuition and fees for in‑state
students at public four‑year colleges and
universities increased from $8,256 in 2011‑12
to $8,655 in 2012‑13. The 4.8% ($399) increase
in tuition and fees was accompanied by a
$325 (3.7%) increase in room and board charges
for students living on campus. At $9,205, room
and board charges account for more than half of
the total charges for these students.
• Average published tuition and fees for out-of-state students at
public four-year institutions rose by $883 (4.2%), from $20,823 in
2011-12 to $21,706 in 2012-13. Average total charges are $30,911.
• Average published tuition and fees at private nonprofit
four-year institutions rose by $1,173 (4.2%), from $27,883 to
$29,056 in 2012-13. Average total charges are $39,518.
• Average published tuition and fees at public two-year colleges
increased by $172 (5.8%), from $2,959 in 2011-12 to $3,131 in
2012-13.
• Estimated average tuition and fees for full-time students in the
for-profit sector increased by about $435 (3.0%), from $14,737
in 2011-12 to $15,172 in 2012-13.
• Published prices at public four-year institutions rose more
rapidly between 2002-03 and 2012-13 than over either of
the two preceding decades, but the average annual rate
of increase in inflation-adjusted tuition and fees at private
nonprofit four-year institutions declined from 4.6% from
1982-83 to 1992-93, to 3.0% from 1992-93 to 2002-03, and
to 2.4% over the most recent decade

My wife and I do have Tiger Parent tendencies, but this article shows that there are other routes to success:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/t...hool-to-get-serious-about-start-ups.html
Before Tumblr, Founder Made Mom Proud. He Quit School.
By JENNA WORTHAM and NICK BILTON
New York Times
May 20, 2013

On average, of course, high school dropouts are less successful than high school graduates, who are less successful than college graduates. How much freedom to give to teenagers is an interesting question.