Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment High COGAT And WISC - District 54 magnet program

We live in north west suburbs of CHicago and my daughter was invited to test for the magnet program based on her strong MAP and coGAT scores. She is 10 years old. Her MAP scores are 98 and 99 percentile in reading and math. Her COGAT scores are 98 and 99 percentile in verbal and non verbal sections. However she missed the d54 cutoff very slightly when her WISC scores came - 124 in verbal and 133 in perceptual.

Can we still sppeal for a WISC retest ?
- I sense a discrepancy in the WISC results.
- I feel that on the basis of WISC alone she should not be excluded from this program

Can anyone provide any pointers on whether WISC retest appeal makes sense.

There has been a lot of discussion on this board recently about the correlation (or lack thereof) between Cogat and WISC. Those are certainly gifted WISC scores. If you decide to take another individually administered IQ test, you must wait at least a year before taking the WISC again. I believe she could take another test such as the Stanford Binet.

What are the cutoff requirements? Do they just take the VCI and PRI into account? Did WMI and PSI bring the FSIQ down? If so, and there is >23 point difference between the indices, then GAI should be calculated.

Why do you sense a discrepancy?

Gabalyn's right. You'd have to pick another test. I've read the Stanford Binet is a good test to use for nonverbal strengths.

Do you think your DD needs the GT magnet? How is she doing in school? How does she like it? Do you feel she’s adequately challenged? What do they provide for GT kids outside of the magnet? And what are the cutoffs for the magnet?

Sometimes the GT magnets are there to serve kids who otherwise aren’t being served in the regular schools. For example, some magnets will increase the pace of instruction and provide accelerated materials because HG kids don’t need all the repetition. I don’t have any facts about your particular situation, but I think it’s very important to look at what you think your DD needs for school and then try to match up with available programs. It’s possible the magnet isn’t quite right for your school. Then again, it’s possible that her scores aren’t reflecting what you see too.

Thank you for all your suggestions and your candor. My daughter does fairly well at school, A grades. But calls school very boring. She feels she is not adequately challenged in her school and complains of being "bored" which is why we're so keen that she become part of a self contained challenging environment. She is typically very excited about new learnings but her lack of engagement in the current classroom leads me to believe she is not getting the right challenging material or the pace is too slow for her.

Ditto to the replies posted above. AND - if you don't already have them, I'd ask for a copy of the full set of WISC subtest scores. If you already have the subtest scores, take a look at them - are the VIQ subtest scores roughly the same across the board, or are there high and low scores (subtest scores differing by more than 3 points? If there are variations in the scores (on either VIQ, PRI, PSI or WM), you'll want to ask the person who administered the test what their impressions were - is there a reason they might be artificially low for example, or was that particular subtest the first or last subtest administered, did your child seem disinterested during the subtest or eager to get the test over with, did they cooperate etc. You'll also want to look at the specific skill being tested as well as how the subtest was administered (verbally, reading prompts, oral or written response, was the subtest timed - none of the VIQ subtests are timed) etc. Compare that skill set to what you know of your child - do you agree that it's not an area of relative strength, or do you still question the results?

Last thing - you need to ask your school district if you can appeal. Chances are they have something about the ability to appeal and how to do it in the school district policy manual. If there is a process for appealing, gather all the data you can on your own first, then make the appeal. If not, then yes, you can appeal because there isn't anything that says you can't

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - fwiw, I do think it's possible that a child with the WISC numbers you've posted can also have the MAP and CogAT results you've posted.

Thank you "polar bear". Your suggestions are all very reasonable and actionable. Thanks to everyone who responded to my posts.

Best,

mverma

My daughter is in the Magnet Program in District 54.I believe three years ago when my daughter had the testing you only needed a net score of 130 to get in. Though they give more weight to the verbal if my memory serves me. I know a classmate at her old school was able to get a retest though I believe she still didn't make it. I know there MAP scores were exactly the same but on the psych test my daughter made it and her classmate didn't.

I am in d54 as well.
We have a few friends with kids in the magnet program. It is very challenging. The district will not accept any outside testing. I don't believe you can appeal either. Your daughter can not be retested for another year per WISC testing guidelines.

Here is a link to the district's gifted website:
http://sd54.org/gifted/

The district also does not believe in acceleration other then the accelerated math program which starts in 3rd grade.

I was looking at your post and decided to look at your district website. Here is what I noticed. You said:


The website states: Students must score a minimum of 134 on the verbal AND a 133 on the perceptual to be eligible for this program. (Emphasis mine)

You may not want to hear this but all of the qualifications you listed that she had are MINIMUM requirements for the district magnet. The WISC is the most reliable measure you listed but you hope you can discount that one as less important. A standard deviation on the WISC would be 15 points.

Your daughter's score for perceptual at 133 is the minimum score to qualify but her verbal is 10 points below this minimum which is close to an entire standard deviation below. Unless she had some substantial issue during testing or has a learning disability that affects the accuracy of her tests then she is unlikely to ever score that minimum of 10 points higher no matter how often you test her. That isn't a tiny miss.

I think at this point your best solution is to accept that your daughter is very intelligent and will do well in the gifted program outside of the magnet. Over at the magnet they are more likely to have kids a standard deviation (or more) above your daughter.

Your district is very blessed to offer options at many levels of giftedness but it doesn't mean that every gifted child needs the same instruction. Your daughter will likely be in the top of the group, make good grades, and be very successful outside of magnet in her local gifted class.

You probably didn't want this advice and you are free to do with it what you want but my honest reaction is that if you read a bit more on this discussion board you will see what a tremendous difference there is in levels of giftedness with kids with WISC FSIQs in the 140s, 150s, 160s, 170s, and even 180s+. There needs to be a place for them to learn too. KWIM?