Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research Opinion, nature or nuture

Yes, I think this makes perfect sense. I think the "environment allowing them to reach their potential" makes a great deal more sense than the idea that they're somehow "magically finding" extra IQ points that aren't possible for them to have any other way.

Someone asked for sources on BF and other infant things that are suppose to increase IQ. I think they were random articles. Internet surfing as I sat there with DD on my breast for 16 hours a day. She was a snacker. Had a little, slept, had a little, slept. While I surfed stupid topics.

OT: I tried to hot house recently, as I have mentioned OLSAT is used in NYC. First of all, I spent too much money on Costco on stupid workbooks and Brainquest--3 levels. DD3.5 told me she was bored and didn't want to do it anymore and I realized I was wasting time as she was getting everything right.

So someone mentioned that hothousing doesn't work for HG+, it doesn't because they know already. But I am still worried about the poor correlation of the OLSAT and SBV.

Ren

Well, to be direct, anyone can post anything to the Internet. That doesn't make it true.

Even if you read it, did you read actual scientific studies? That aren't misunderstood or taken out of context by someone else? Or did the websites just state these things as fact without anything verifiable to back it up?

I guess what I'm saying is that I think this stuff is a sort of urban legend that people state all the time as if it's true without any evidence whatsoever. No one doubts that breastfeeding is good for kids. Heck, even the formula companies admit it! But I think the effect on IQ scores is grossly overstated.

It's obvious that moving with kids is good for them, but again, the effect on IQ scores is almost certainly neither so great nor so direct as this makes it sound.

LOL, Kriston! Last week I actually DID break out into hives and it was NOT FUN! Stress can do weird things to the body.

I'm late to this thread so I'll just jump in on a few points. DD6 had a nanny for her first 13 months of life, and then she went to a Montessori school for a little over a year. Her nanny never took her anywhere but provided her with love and attention--undivided attention. I stopped working when DD3 was born and so was home with her as a baby as well as now with DS1. I KNOW that DD6 got way more attention than my DS1 ever did, partly because now he spends a lot of his day in a car seat as we're running around for errands or taking the other two to activities. Sometimes I think he'd be better off in a daycare setting where they were able to just play with him all of the time (I don't really think this but sometimes that mommy guilt creeps in). I guess I can see where the nurture part has something to do with it, but I would think a lot of a child's ability would be from nature.

I chose to breastfeed my kids but it was always more for immunity benefits and because I just plain wanted to do so than it was because of IQ. I guess I always attributed the statistics to the fact that a lot of the women who now choose to breastfeed tend to be more educated and may have higher IQs themselves. I think Lorel has written about this somewhere on the forum too.

As others have more eloquently said, I just can't imagine that some of these choices (staying home v. daycare, breast v. bottle) would make that significant of a difference, at least not enough to make others feel guilty about their choices.

And I doubt my DD6 would look HG+ to a casual observer, which is probably why DH and I were a little surprised when we got her WPPSI scores. Even we missed it. Denial, denial, denial.

Here's some info about the latest study (pub. may 5, 2008) that says breastfeeding increases verbal iq:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/05/AR2008050501619.html

I did breastfeed DS for 2.5 years, but had planned to do only 1 year. Then we found out about his dairy allergy, and he wouldn't drink alternatives, so there you have it. I never heard anything about breastfeeding possibly raising IQ (until now).

Here are a couple studies. There are lots more and, of course, they don't all agree. There was one study that suggests that the effects vary depending on genetic differences in fatty acid metabolism pathways. Anyway, I used Entrez Pubmed and typed in "IQ Breastfeeding".

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1718901&blobtype=pdf

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7575/945

[quote=Kriston]Well, I guess I think the "build more connections" argument is the one that has been used to sell all that Baby Einstein-style crap that's on the market these days, and I think that is such a load of nonsense.

You don't need to play only classical music for your baby or take him to the art museum from birth in order to nurture brain development. What babies and young kids need is security, affection, and daily interaction with adults who talk to them, sing to them, read to them, point things out to them, etc. Nothing fancy, just the normal sorts of stuff that people have done with kids for...well, for forever. Kids can get that treatment in lots of different ways and from lots of different people. [/quote

Yes, kids learn lots of ways and from lots of people. I just meant that the more things kids are exposed to at an early age (parks, dogs, zoos, walking, the newspaper, trees, creeks, books, plants, pots and pans, museums, whatever) the better their brains develop and the easier it is to build on that early exposure. You're right babies need love and affection and daily interaction with adults, nothing fancy, but there has to be more interaction than just feeding and changing the diaper and letting the kid watch TV or sit in a crib ALL day. Many, certainly not all, but many kids do not get that interaction at day-care.

I never used the Baby Einstien or any of that crap. But, when I did play classical music for myself to enjoy, many times I would talk to son about it or dance with him or march to Sousa or direct the symphony. My husband did the same with Metallica, so he got a wide range of music! Did that help him develop musical talent? Who knows, but it sure didn't hurt any.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I do think that building a foundation through interaction and movement and exposure is important.

Thank you for providing the research. On comment about casual obeserver.

Because I am interacting with DD3 all the time, I think maybe MG not HG because I am so used to her. Last Friday we did a make up class at Little Gym and there was an instructor unknown to her. As she sat there eating granola, the guy came over and started a conversation with her and I didn't join in. And I had one of those moments where I am looking at my kid, and I am not her mother, and I went Wow. After class, I ran over to her to get shoes and socks on to head out to a playdate and the guy turns to me and makes a comment "she is so-o smart" and the other guy quickly turns and says, "yeah, she is way smart". So how much does the casual observer have to see if they are interacting? Yes, seeing a child in a store aisle, you cannot see anything. But does it take much out of their mouths at 3 or 4? Older yes, but when they are really young, their manner of speaking, what they say. It is not average.

Aside: Anti-feminist? My mother was born in 1918 and was a physician. She brought me up to be in a position of power. Whatever career I chose, to strive to the highest. But I am also a woman, who became a mother. Luckily, I have a career where I do not have to go a lab or school to work. And I took time off, I start again. And I do not to diminish anyone who really has to work. This is a tough economy. But instinctively, I felt the need to nurture for brain development. Maybe I was totally off-base, but for me, it was more important to plan DD's days and take care of her than to trust anyone else. I just couldn't. I got some consulting and found someone who was Chinese, spoke Mandarin. I really liked her but couldn't leave DD alone with her. This my child.

Would you trust your pension fund to someone from Mexico making $15-$20 an hour? That is how I felt about DD's care. I just couldn't. I wouldn't be able to fix the mistake. Only one chance.

My view, Ren

Ren, doing all you can to give your child the best start in life is one of the highest callings a person can have. Just don't expect a guaranteed outcome for the job. There are genetic limits, there are physical limits outside your control, and the child also has control over his own life eventually; there are no guarantees what he will choose to do, or not do.

My DS at 3 or 4 would have rarely engaged a stranger like this. Or even a preschool teacher. His preschool teachers had him pegged as possible ADHD. He did what he had to fit into his preschool environment. At home we were reading the Chronicles of Narnia and James and the Giant Peach. At school, he wouldn't sit still for story time. We did get some comments on him if he'd spend a few hours with someone, but not typically.

My daughter at 3.5 is a teachers delight and is much more willing to show her stuff at this age. I had a preschool conference a couple weeks ago for her that was absolutely raving. Do I think she's more gifted? In my gut, I really doubt it. She's a bit socially more mature and more of a pleaser. Her interests lie more in the realm of what teachers would find favorable.


As someone who's been at home for going on 8 years with my children, I certainly didn't do it for brain development of my kids. I did it for the emotional and mental health of our entire family. I actually felt a bit bad when DS started kindergarten he didn't attend full time Montissori with all the readers in his class. And I don't think we need to make this a sexist thing. There are 5 stay at home dads at my daughters preschool. This is not uncommon at all around here.

But some people NEED to work for the economics. And some people NEED to work for their own sanity and find that they can be better parents to their children with that outlet outside the home. Everyone knows their own situation best and has to find a fit that works for them. Some people find childcare they love and are comfortable with. I couldn't, but I have no problem if other people do.


OHG - very well stated! Thanks!