Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion go to college or no?

pm'd you a story.

I've never seen a posting for an IT gig below managerial level that didn't require a 4-year degree "or equivalent experience," which generally translates to 5 years of actually doing the job. Companies have a habit of plucking enterprising individuals off of internships, the helpdesk, or operations center, and giving them a shot at something better. That's where you get the experience, and then you're free to do what you want with it after that.

That's the path I took. I got some real world experience in the Navy, though not in a role that directly translates in any way to what I do today. So, I landed in a data center as a night operator, got a shot at systems work, and ran from there. The upshot is that I got my education while getting paid, rather than while accumulating debt.

I've tried taking college courses related to IT, but the ones I tried were painfully awful. I just don't have the same tolerance for slow-moving, largely irrelevant, excessively time-consuming activities in my adulthood. For example, the first college course I took was on networking, but it focused entirely on procedures for configuring a Windows NT server on a network. I didn't care about pointy-clicky procedures on a single proprietary (and soon to be outdated) platform, I wanted to know how it works. So I dropped the course, bought a book, problem solved.

Another course I tried was in web programming. The teacher kept screwing up his sample code, and I had to keep correcting him in order to get the class moving again.

In general, I'd never recommend a child go into development work. For once thing, it's too easy to outsource. There are other specialties in IT that are far more stable. The key is to find something where you have to at least occasionally touch the platforms. Network, systems, storage, and security admins come to mind.

A university education opens up opportunities that would otherwise be unavailable due to a combination of signalling ability/knowledge to others and actually imparting ability/knowledge to a graduate.

I remain cynically attached to my university studies:
1. Attached thanks to the few profs who shared knowledge and passion that is exclusive to them. These are the individuals who offered a transformative experience in the classroom-- I was totally inspired to self actualization by dint of meeting these brilliant folks. I can think of 2 of, say, 50+, and they were life changers.
2. Cynical because I believe higher education is becoming quite commoditized. The field of candidates is being diluted by universities' fiscal motive and student apathy/entitlement.

My suggestion would be to seek out mentorship for starting personal projects/entrepreneurship during high school-- earlier, if interest warrants. Anyone bright can go to university (pending finances) but few university students are truly impassioned about their field. In my experience, it's the people who have initiative outside the classroom who are most successful in life because they take ownership of their life direction. University can easily follow personal projects and, IMO, should follow if an individual's interests align with a university appropriate field of study.

Aquinas (above) and SAHM


pretty much summed up my personal take on this. While I've become fairly cynical about the rat race surrounding higher ed, and the commoditization of the industry (I can't even believe how icky it made me feel to type that word), I still see no real route around it for the generation of kids who are now 8-18yo.

With the automated HR systems now running screening, NOT having a degree means that you only have networking as a workaround. Now, if you happen to be very good, and in the right place at the right time, then that CAN work out. But that's like putting all of your hopes on winning the MLB homerun derby, isn't it? Sure, you may be talented, but there is an element of luck involved, too, and nobody can predict that or change it either.


I want my DD to have that opportunity and I want her to have enough BREADTH of theoretical knowledge/learning that she has a formalized way of demonstrating throughout her life that she can learn a wide variety of things. It's a certification process all right... but it's not job training. It's better than that.

My DH and I both have advanced degrees in fairly specialized fields. Both of us have been quite gainfully (and stably) employed in related (but not integral) disciplines. Considering underemployment, either one of us could land a job in materials, chemistry, physics, related engineering disciplines, pharmaceuticals, toxicology, environmental science, or grant/technical writing/editing within DAYS, and that job would pay well enough to support a family adequately.

That kind of stability is an amazing force in one's life, honestly. It enables things.

My DD sees that very clearly. We want her pursue what she loves, of course... but perhaps more to the point, we want her to be sufficiently pragmatic as to choose wisely, too. Some 'loves' are better left as sidelines.

I do not buy all the hype surrounding elite/not-quite-elite college admissions, however. I simply do NOT think that an additional 40K annually can be justified over what the local state university costs. DD might apply just to prove to herself that she's good enough to get in... but I for one am not going to encourage (or even stay silent) if she proposes racking up more than 10K in loans. No way. You're borrowing against your future at the company store, kiddo...


I think of it in terms of "what if the worst case scenario came true?" What if you became unable to work through illness or injury? Could you still repay it? What if you were forced to drop out before finishing? Could you still repay it?

Any time the answer is "I'm not sure how I would do that" then that's a red flag, in my opinion. Educational debt is unsecured, and it's no longer easy to discharge.

THIS. Exactly. (One of the reasons I'm filled with regret for not going). And how lucky is your DD to have this modeled for her



Agreed. Also, if they're local, they're close by. My kids are still young, but I don't ever see a time when I'll be ready for them to be thousands of miles away.

I can't speak for other industries, but as I said earlier, that's just not true for IT. "Or equivalent experience" is a very common term. Getting your resume past an automated screener in IT is simply a matter of loading it up with the kind of acronyms and jargon that you'll find listed on the job posting: SQL, Cobol, TCP/IP, disaster recovery, etc. Depending on your area, there are certifications that can count for more than a degree, and those certifications are cheaper to attain.

What's more, those certification authorities are better at keeping up with the industry than colleges.


Ditto.

For the last 20-30 years, we've seen college expenses increase annually by double digits, even when adjusted for inflation, while wages have stagnated, and benefits have decreased. Educational debt is nigh on impossible to discharge in a bankruptcy. It's already getting to the point where a degree is not worth the expense for a growing number of people, the ROI just doesn't work. As these trends are allowed to continue, the pool of people who will materially benefit from a college education grows ever smaller.

10k in loans is quite optimistic. The average student graduated in 2011 with $26,600 in debt.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/student-loan-debt-hits-record-high-study-shows-1C6542975

I am all in favor of college education. I have a Masters degree and it has truly helped me in two ways: 1) I have changed careers three times to find the career that would be the most fulfilling to me and the only reason I was even qualified to apply for jobs in other career paths (with zero experience) was because I had a degree that was somewhat relevant. 2) It gave an opportunity to meet people with similar interests and similar intellectual range. I learnt to think critically, to work diligently just to find a tiny bit more info than you had before, to assimilate information from various fields into a cohesive whole, etc. Skills that continue to help me in my highly technical field. I believe that I have the ability to see through issues without losing sight of the big picture because of my college education, if that makes sense. PS. We have been saving for DD3.5's college education from day one.

Thank you all for the various responses!

CCN - I do dread the idea that he will end up on the other side of 25 without a degree and realize he's made a bad mistake; if I really thought he wouldn't benefit from a college education and the experience socially, I wouldn't be so concerned with keeping it on the table.
My college friends are still my best friends, for one thing. Finding people of similar interests and intellectual ability will be much less likely for him without going to college. I want him to finally be at a place where it's ok to read shakespeare for fun with your friends (ok maybe my college was weird).

My DH says he just wants to make sure it won't be 'required' by me...

If he gets into a job and realizes he hates it, I'd want him to have more options, not less, thus the degree.

ex: I have a degree in fine art; no one cares what it's in at this point, they just want to know I really wrote a couple of essays in my life and can probably do algebra and think.

I am in IT also, pretty successful considering my start;
I am a computer systems administrator
(regarding being a programmer
vs. systems admin, I heartily agree with the idea that the programmers tend to get the short end of the stick, hours-wise and software lifecycle wise
I swear whoever came up with the "agile" idea should have realized it would devolve into 'hurry up and throw something together by thursday every single week*'.
*Until you get so sick of it you quit.

Zen Scanner -
yes I definitely think he will be much happier if he is one of the people doing 'wow' stuff instead of one of the grunts churning out 'assets' in a 'piece work'/sweatshop arrangement.
"There are also deeper skills and explorations one can do in school that you may not get to in a job where you are trapped in release cycles. Some of the specialty areas in game development need fairly advanced knowledge like AI, physics, graphics, and performance tuning."

He has such an aversion for repetitive/non meaningful work I'm afraid he'll be completely miserable if he has to grind away in a dead end job...more miserable than the average joe, in a way.

One point in the article my husband sent: Especially don't go to college if you can just do what you want by going to the library (good will hunting anyone?);
the inverse being - DO GO to college if you are interested in STEM category career - this does include computer science/technology in general.


I would truly be delighted if this vid. game programming course our ds is taking really lights a (further) fire under him and he just plugs away for a couple years on that.
If he sticks with it beyond that, gets employment offers in addition to applying to college, I would likely not stand in his way, but at least try for part time college to keep the ball going.
I do hope getting him access to learning about this sooner rather than later will help him know whether it's for real his dream career. But almost everyone grows out of what they want to do when they are 12, so maximizing options is the ideal.

I still want to be a computer game designer as I did thirty some years ago. But I've enjoyed having maximized my options in many peculiar ways.

Pass this website on to your son:
http://gamasutra.com/

I still have irritating nightmares about college on a regular basis and it was probably the worst period of my life.

However, as much as I wish that I hadn't had the *experience* of college, you pretty much have to have a piece of paper that shows that you are a college graduate.

It really is the current high school diploma and there's no way to avoid that if you want to be employed at a pretty basic level, you want to have a college degree.