Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments After grade acceleration...

I'm working on getting my son grade accelerated after your success stories, as well as reading "Genius Denied".

My son is currently loving his "stardom" as a precocious 2nd grader. He is popular, well liked by friends and teachers, and succeeding in everything he undertakes (at school) without much effort.

My question is this: After a grade acceleration, in your experience, did this change? I have also seen him sullen and depressed - I don't want to go there again.

Thank you all!

My DD was miserable as a precocious first grader, and found that a grade acceleration gave her a lot of "stardom."

The first 9-week grading period was tough for her, because the material was mostly new to her and review for the rest of the class. Processing and writing speed were big issues for that entire year, too, but were far less of an issue the following year.

Ed, (that will be easier than mcsquared)

My DD8 (4th grader) skipped K.

During 1st grade, there are many high achieving kids and she is one of many high performers. By 2nd grade, she is clearly top of the class. We moved to a new school this year. They have TAG classes that teaches 5th grade level. (She could do 6th-7th grade level Math and LA but she has some gaps) There are a few kids who were better than her at the start of the school year but it seems like she caught up with them already. It's just a matter of time that she would become the top cat (she likes cat nor dog).

HG and PG usually needs 2 or more grade acceleration (granted with no 2E issue).

Your DS will be fine after grade acceleration. He probably will need more later on.

In out experience, our DS who was able to easily make friends had no problems making friends after his grade skip, and again after transferring to an accelerated program another year ahead.

As for academics, after one grade skip in our local school, DS was still getting the highest test scores in the class. He had probably the worst handwriting in the class, but that wasn't a huge change as it was poor before the skip. We did talk to him about how he would probably be one of the slower kids in gym, but as he wasn't all that coordinated at that age anyway, he said he didn't mind since he was already pretty bad in gym.

We got what we really wanted for our kiddo when we transferred to the accelerated HG program -- he was finally appropriately challenged and not always top of the class in everything. The teacher pointed out that since the program was a big change for most kids since they were finally getting challenged, it was common to go through a phase where there may be tears and complaints of things being too hard, but really the kids were just experiencing how to learn in school for the first time. We did discuss this possibility with our son, to help him know what to expect.

We also told our son that we were doing our best to find him an appropriate school situation. I think it helps kids a lot to know that the parent is on their side, even if things don't work out.

How the transition goes also depends somewhat on your kid's personality. My kiddo is pretty laid back and doesn't like standing out. He's also a chameleon and can fit pretty well in any group. Things went fine for him.

I came back to read this because it scares me. My nearly 6 year old son scores >99.9 percentile. At his current school he is unlikely to get anything in the way of acceleration or extension and all the other schools are much the same. If I want acceleration I will have to fight everyone and may make things unliveable with. If I do every other school in town will know before I approach them.

when he is about 11 and changes schools there is an extension class but it is new and I suspect it won't last. Also it is more achievement based and he is likely to have given up by then. I guess I had better get used to fighting the system.

Popular, well liked by teachers & other students, and academically successful did not change post skip. There was the bit of "celebrity" thing happening in that grade skips aren't common, but there was also the benefit of MG+ kids who were, on avg, 18 months or so older (dd's bd made her very young for grade pre-skip), some of whom were reasonable peers academically so she no longer had the aspect of standing out as the best in virtually everything. There are still areas where dd is still a real standout but in her weakest area, she now looks like a MG typical kid albeit that isn't the case so much as that she's been accelerated as much as she needs to be in that area and doesn't need more acceleration there.

In regard to the note that HG & PG kids need more than 1 yr of acceleration barring a 2e issue, maybe but maybe not and I wouldn't worry about that yet when crossing the first skip bridge. My dd is HG but not PG and we've gotten by with the combo of one grade skip, the bd that put her in as young for grade, subject acceleration post-skip, AP & honors courses, and choicing her to a very large high school (around 2,000 kids) so the odds of there being other gifted kids was better, and selecting a school that is very high performing with significantly higher expectations than our assigned school.

My son was super nervous about his skip when it actually came to the day he was switching. He had friends and all that in his old class. It only took him about 2-3 days and then he loved it. He made lots of new friends and came home happier! Something helpful I read and thought about when making this decision was that we wouldn't know if it was better unless we tried. 12 years is a long time to sit bored all day! =] hope it goes well.

Yes-- same story here. DD13's writing skills place her as a "very competent MG 11th grader," when compared with her typical age (16+17yo) academic peers in that setting.

One caution is that this can lead the child to assume that this is a TRUE 'weakness' or area of struggle, since they don't have an accurate frame of reference.


I think that this is true even at higher LOG-- it just happens with more than a single skip. It's the same strategy that we've gone with. Believe it or not, most of the time, after the FIRST skip goes well, the school becomes more willing to consider doing it again if it seems necessary.

Yes, this has come up with math this year. DS9 is effectively grade-skipped twice (one skip in the regular local school, and then a transfer to a school for HG kids that is accelerated at least a year). He started saying that he's no good at math (mostly because he's not at the top of the class). It helped to show him the the chart depicting where his scores are compared with the rest of the district (not just his class). This helped more than reminding him that he's at a year younger than most his classmates, that he's still in the 99th percentile, that scores go up and down, etc.


The held true for us. When DS skipped 1st grade and was still underchallenged so we were trying to find solutions, I remember the principal commenting more than once that she forgot that he had already skipped a grade. Once the school sees how successful a grade skip has been, things get better. They must see for themselves that their long-held beliefs (skips are not a good idea) are not true for everyone.

I think that this is the hallmark of a successful skip. Dd14's teachers often said the same to me in middle school (she skipped the last year of elementary) and it came up once with a high school teacher who had assumed that she was one of the oldest in grade not younger. We find a lot of educators with the belief that being older is invariably better and who are rather surprised when that doesn't hold true. In fact, I recall when we were ready to register dd14 for kindergarten (her bd had her starting just before her 5th bd), the principal telling me that the "younger kids invariably fail" and that her age would become more and more problematic as she got further into school and she fell further and further behind due to being too young. Redshirting is not uncommon with kids whose bds are in the summer and early fall here.

That attitude tends to lead toward educators making assumptions that kids who are succeeding socially and academically must be older not younger and certainly not grade skipped. It is good, IMHO, for them to realize that their assumptions may not always be true.

I think there is more to it than simply saying a PG child needs radical acceleration. I also don't feel that being/needing much more advancement is *the* definition of PG. I see it as a characteristic shared by many PG children. But I don't see it as the only characteristic or a characteristic that is always present. It is an easily recognizable characteristic, so maybe that's why many of us in of it as a part-and-parcel of being PG. My ds doesn't show that sameness to accelerate in an obvious way, but he is an inward thinking personality by nature. We can *put* him8! Radically accelerated learning environments and he fits right in, but he doesn't run to us begging for it. However, he has amazing insight and problem-solving abilities that knock the socks off people when he shares his ideas and thoughts. His brain clearly thinks differently, and he prefers to learn in his own way. There's really no one way to define PG (jmo) -I do agree that there is more to it than just an arbitrary 99.9th percentile cut-off, but also don't think it's ossicle to quantify it as an obvious need for accelerated academics in the traditional sense either.

polarbear

I guess that we may have some difference in definition then, which is fine. To be clear, my kiddo isn't just labelled as HG by her school system, she is a person who has consistently tested slightly below DYS requirements in tests like talent search and individual achievement and the one IQ test she took yrs ago without accommodation for processing speed deficits such as extended time.

I really do think that HG or PG is about depth, yes IQ scores, and just learning differently than typical. I use as my comparison my other dd who is also HG but has had less acceleration (a slightly earlier school start than her sister, subject acceleration, and honors classes but no grade skip). She's not less gifted simply b/c she's needed less acceleration. She's just one whose greatest passions are not in the academic realm.

I guess that I am not sure about defining any specific degree of giftedness solely by the amount of grade skips needed. In reality, there are no number of grade skips that would make a perfect fit for most HG or PG kids b/c they still need different more than they need the same stuff offered faster.

Agreed. "EG/PG" is our description which is really only used in instances where it is useful or necessary for us to differentiate our DD from her MG peers.

I don't know whether or not our DD is "PG" by any numerical measure.

I do know that she seems to be based on her functional characteristics, and she is every bit as different from MG peers as those peers are from normative/average-ability peers.

Simply accelerating isn't really the route to a great school fit, even for kids like mine who are reasonably even in their skill set and readiness level. But it is often the least-worst option, for sure.

The other thing is that you don't really know until you try. That goes for acceleration, homeschooling, afterschooling, in-class differentiation, etc. Pretty much universal.

Even some private gifted schools cannot accommodate PG kids. That's the ugly reality, or has been the case with DS7.

DS was in a traditional private gifted school for pre-K at 5; it was structured and classes were grouped by a couple of ages. DS accelerated through the pre-k/k/1st grade curriculum within 2 1/2 months. Headmaster refused to grade skip him to 2/3rd grade class or even just for math.

I then put DS in a Montessori-type private gifted school for the remainder of pre-k and k. This was fairly unstructured with kids from pre-k to 8th grade. DS had the 'celebrity' thing there too. Teachers said that he might not be there long.

Well, this year I'm homeschooling. I've been using a general curriculum guide series for some structure and to make sure the 'basics' are covered. I started at grade 1 and DS is now in Grade 5 and likely to finish the series at Grade 6 by the end of the year. He's also reading adult level books on the Mayans, Incas, Ancient Egypt, archaeology, and English history.

What I notice is that the PGness might not be so glaring in the company of others, depending on the child. My DS is an introvert too so he doesn't always show his true colors in public spaces or certain settings. Last year, he took the WJ-III and did not receive a qualifying score for DYS either.

Frankly imo, I don't see how a private or public school can really accommodate some PG kids. For one, I don't think the schools physically have the books or materials that some of these kids seem to vacuum. I just don't see many elementary schools having the expertise or resources on particular subjects and topics. The vast majority of kids have to be coaxed to read a book on the Mayans or Incas; instead of having a child who has gone through the public library's children's and adult collections of it . And that's just an example of one subject and one rapid acceleration.

Yes, and I think that something that is difficult for others to understand (not having the personal experience of having lived it) is that it is very definitely "cannot" rather than "will not."

A great many schools "will not" accommodate HG+ children... but they probably COULD do so. This is, in my opinion, the real indictment offered in books like Genius Denied. That's actually a LARGER problem by the numbers, because there are far more of those children. It's a terrible thing that schools tell those kids to "just behave" and offer them nothing, even when parents advocate for more appropriate challenges. The difference is that (at least in our experience) when you have a PG child, the school doesn't offer resistance-- but they simply have no idea WHAT to do. They tend to leap on parent suggestions-- even when they are just ideas and you don't really know, either.

COULD a school accommodate a child like mine? I'm not sure. Not without drawing exclusively EG/PG kids, probably. Recall, I'm coming at this from the perspective of an insider without skin in the game-- I was a very observant teacher's kid who spent decades as a fly on the wall, and later entered post-secondary ed myself. There are things that present barriers there that parents aren't always fully aware of.

Their needs are just too far outside of what must be on offer and considered for the sake of students with more normative kinds of needs. Resources ARE limited. Some of those kids, they need everything that can be directed at them in terms of just help reaching basic numeracy and literacy-- and this is a major societal problem if that effort fails. That's a real consideration and a competing one in an integrated classroom setting.

I mean, I look at my DD and she seems "just normal DD" to me and my DH-- and in the right environment you completely forget that there is anything odd about her. The trouble is that "the right environment" is often only transitory.

She is generally happy and challenged for 2-6 months after a jump into novel/challenging settings.

What school could fully accommodate that, along with her idiosyncratic pattern of asynchrony (and that of other similarly able classmates)?

Maybe a boarding school exclusively for HG+ children could-- but no neighborhood dayschool can hope to meet those needs very well.

This is so true and well said. Of course, the other issue is that there's ONE school in the country that specifically caters to PG kids. That's it. And like you said, resources are limited and these kids are too far outside the norm for schools to cope or deal with the situation.

I do know a PG mother who has a son at a boarding school this year. She said that he wasn't ready socially/emotionally yet for college at 13-years-old. She said that he's done a bunch of courses online and in person at a nearby community college and state college. She said he got a full scholarship to attend as a post-graduate. I don't know which boarding school her son attends, but it's probably one of the top boarding schools since only the top boarding schools have the money to offer a full scholarship.

I'm new here, so let me preface this by saying I'm not trolling! This is a bit tangential as well, but still related to the grade skip.

I am interested in some of the earlier comments about "stardom" for little ones who have received grade skips or extra attention for being HG. Do you think this is always positive? In my son's case it most definitely was not. Several years ago in 1st grade, he spent half the day in the GT classroom because the teachers didn't know what do do with him...and ended up skipping him the next year. One teacher used to call him "Little Einstein" in the hallway and he received a great deal of attention simply for being smart.

My concerns were:
A. He was showing increasing amounts of perfectionism
B. His self-esteem was becoming tied to this attention
C. The teachers were pointing out his differentness to the other children
D. He became boastful and started helping out the teachers with "C"

Of those, I think "b" was the most troublesome for the long term. Something strange happened to his little ego during that period, and it took about 2 years to undo. I always try to praise for hard work rather than intelligence.

My advice to any parent of an elementary aged kid with an impending grade skip is to what Master of None suggests, and "Just keep talking to him so he has a frame of reference for what's going on and doesn't peg his self esteem on anything in particular." In addition, have the discussion with his teachers and principal.

Finally, I'll just point out that this was only one experience, and there are multiple variables that played into it: my son's personality, the teachers, the school district, the general "vibe" of the school, etc. As Howler Karma said, you won't know until you try it! I wish you all the best. Having a HG child can be a hard road to travel at times -- at least in regards to education.

Kitty

I would try my darndest to have my child not base their whole self image around being the best and brightest. There's always going to be someone better and brighter. Watch Good Will Hunting and pay attention to the blonde mentor character. You don't want that for your child.

Kitty - these are some of the reasons why homeschool/unschooling is a least-worst situation for pg/hg kids. Schools are not always the best setting for them to thrive or be themselves.

With DS, he didn't need the school or teachers to point out his differentness. It was obvious as soon as he walked in a room or opened his gob. He had the perfectionism issue before he even started pre-k too.

DS didn't particularly like the attention of the 'stardom' from the teacher. It wasn't positive, far from it. When DS was 5, in pre-k, and in the pre-k/k/1st grade class , DS told the teacher that no one tells the [DS's name] what to do and that he didn't need her to learn. The teacher said that he was correct about not needing her to learn. She really didn't know how to respond to DS or what to do, which left us with a gaping hole.

Last year (at 6 and in k), DS didn't fare much better in a mixed aged setting with kids from pre-k to 8th grade. He didn't like being the 'mascot' by the older students and found it to be condescending. He also had a bully incident in school that wasn't pleasant either and remained awkward.

Then, there was the aspect of producing work in school and motivation. At the structured school, DS produced more but still underachieved. We didn't really have the grades and external motivation (ie. rewards/punishments) there much because DS was technically in pre-k. Still, it was there with punishments if DS didn't cooperate. At the unstructured school, DS underachieved and didn't do much work if it wasn't perfect. The teachers tried to motivate DS externally but this would often backfire. DS would then lose recess because he didn't cooperate or produce work. It was frustrating.

DS is very often not externally motivated, no matter how much you dangle a carrot in front of him. I guess I assumed that private gifted schools were somewhat knowledgeable about these matters and what to do. Unfortunately, that was a mistake and naive of me.

Between the teachers, other students, curriculum, etc. there's just so many variables that can make schools less than desirable and more of a hurdle, hindrance, and headache than a solution or answer. I'm not saying that schools can't provide for some pg/hg kids because I've heard tales on this board where it has been the case, but there's a lot of variables that can send a pg/hg kid sideways.