Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments After grade acceleration...

I think there is more to it than simply saying a PG child needs radical acceleration. I also don't feel that being/needing much more advancement is *the* definition of PG. I see it as a characteristic shared by many PG children. But I don't see it as the only characteristic or a characteristic that is always present. It is an easily recognizable characteristic, so maybe that's why many of us in of it as a part-and-parcel of being PG. My ds doesn't show that sameness to accelerate in an obvious way, but he is an inward thinking personality by nature. We can *put* him8! Radically accelerated learning environments and he fits right in, but he doesn't run to us begging for it. However, he has amazing insight and problem-solving abilities that knock the socks off people when he shares his ideas and thoughts. His brain clearly thinks differently, and he prefers to learn in his own way. There's really no one way to define PG (jmo) -I do agree that there is more to it than just an arbitrary 99.9th percentile cut-off, but also don't think it's ossicle to quantify it as an obvious need for accelerated academics in the traditional sense either.

polarbear

I guess that we may have some difference in definition then, which is fine. To be clear, my kiddo isn't just labelled as HG by her school system, she is a person who has consistently tested slightly below DYS requirements in tests like talent search and individual achievement and the one IQ test she took yrs ago without accommodation for processing speed deficits such as extended time.

I really do think that HG or PG is about depth, yes IQ scores, and just learning differently than typical. I use as my comparison my other dd who is also HG but has had less acceleration (a slightly earlier school start than her sister, subject acceleration, and honors classes but no grade skip). She's not less gifted simply b/c she's needed less acceleration. She's just one whose greatest passions are not in the academic realm.

I guess that I am not sure about defining any specific degree of giftedness solely by the amount of grade skips needed. In reality, there are no number of grade skips that would make a perfect fit for most HG or PG kids b/c they still need different more than they need the same stuff offered faster.

Agreed. "EG/PG" is our description which is really only used in instances where it is useful or necessary for us to differentiate our DD from her MG peers.

I don't know whether or not our DD is "PG" by any numerical measure.

I do know that she seems to be based on her functional characteristics, and she is every bit as different from MG peers as those peers are from normative/average-ability peers.

Simply accelerating isn't really the route to a great school fit, even for kids like mine who are reasonably even in their skill set and readiness level. But it is often the least-worst option, for sure.

The other thing is that you don't really know until you try. That goes for acceleration, homeschooling, afterschooling, in-class differentiation, etc. Pretty much universal.

Even some private gifted schools cannot accommodate PG kids. That's the ugly reality, or has been the case with DS7.

DS was in a traditional private gifted school for pre-K at 5; it was structured and classes were grouped by a couple of ages. DS accelerated through the pre-k/k/1st grade curriculum within 2 1/2 months. Headmaster refused to grade skip him to 2/3rd grade class or even just for math.

I then put DS in a Montessori-type private gifted school for the remainder of pre-k and k. This was fairly unstructured with kids from pre-k to 8th grade. DS had the 'celebrity' thing there too. Teachers said that he might not be there long.

Well, this year I'm homeschooling. I've been using a general curriculum guide series for some structure and to make sure the 'basics' are covered. I started at grade 1 and DS is now in Grade 5 and likely to finish the series at Grade 6 by the end of the year. He's also reading adult level books on the Mayans, Incas, Ancient Egypt, archaeology, and English history.

What I notice is that the PGness might not be so glaring in the company of others, depending on the child. My DS is an introvert too so he doesn't always show his true colors in public spaces or certain settings. Last year, he took the WJ-III and did not receive a qualifying score for DYS either.

Frankly imo, I don't see how a private or public school can really accommodate some PG kids. For one, I don't think the schools physically have the books or materials that some of these kids seem to vacuum. I just don't see many elementary schools having the expertise or resources on particular subjects and topics. The vast majority of kids have to be coaxed to read a book on the Mayans or Incas; instead of having a child who has gone through the public library's children's and adult collections of it . And that's just an example of one subject and one rapid acceleration.

Yes, and I think that something that is difficult for others to understand (not having the personal experience of having lived it) is that it is very definitely "cannot" rather than "will not."

A great many schools "will not" accommodate HG+ children... but they probably COULD do so. This is, in my opinion, the real indictment offered in books like Genius Denied. That's actually a LARGER problem by the numbers, because there are far more of those children. It's a terrible thing that schools tell those kids to "just behave" and offer them nothing, even when parents advocate for more appropriate challenges. The difference is that (at least in our experience) when you have a PG child, the school doesn't offer resistance-- but they simply have no idea WHAT to do. They tend to leap on parent suggestions-- even when they are just ideas and you don't really know, either.

COULD a school accommodate a child like mine? I'm not sure. Not without drawing exclusively EG/PG kids, probably. Recall, I'm coming at this from the perspective of an insider without skin in the game-- I was a very observant teacher's kid who spent decades as a fly on the wall, and later entered post-secondary ed myself. There are things that present barriers there that parents aren't always fully aware of.

Their needs are just too far outside of what must be on offer and considered for the sake of students with more normative kinds of needs. Resources ARE limited. Some of those kids, they need everything that can be directed at them in terms of just help reaching basic numeracy and literacy-- and this is a major societal problem if that effort fails. That's a real consideration and a competing one in an integrated classroom setting.

I mean, I look at my DD and she seems "just normal DD" to me and my DH-- and in the right environment you completely forget that there is anything odd about her. The trouble is that "the right environment" is often only transitory.

She is generally happy and challenged for 2-6 months after a jump into novel/challenging settings.

What school could fully accommodate that, along with her idiosyncratic pattern of asynchrony (and that of other similarly able classmates)?

Maybe a boarding school exclusively for HG+ children could-- but no neighborhood dayschool can hope to meet those needs very well.

This is so true and well said. Of course, the other issue is that there's ONE school in the country that specifically caters to PG kids. That's it. And like you said, resources are limited and these kids are too far outside the norm for schools to cope or deal with the situation.

I do know a PG mother who has a son at a boarding school this year. She said that he wasn't ready socially/emotionally yet for college at 13-years-old. She said that he's done a bunch of courses online and in person at a nearby community college and state college. She said he got a full scholarship to attend as a post-graduate. I don't know which boarding school her son attends, but it's probably one of the top boarding schools since only the top boarding schools have the money to offer a full scholarship.

I'm new here, so let me preface this by saying I'm not trolling! This is a bit tangential as well, but still related to the grade skip.

I am interested in some of the earlier comments about "stardom" for little ones who have received grade skips or extra attention for being HG. Do you think this is always positive? In my son's case it most definitely was not. Several years ago in 1st grade, he spent half the day in the GT classroom because the teachers didn't know what do do with him...and ended up skipping him the next year. One teacher used to call him "Little Einstein" in the hallway and he received a great deal of attention simply for being smart.

My concerns were:
A. He was showing increasing amounts of perfectionism
B. His self-esteem was becoming tied to this attention
C. The teachers were pointing out his differentness to the other children
D. He became boastful and started helping out the teachers with "C"

Of those, I think "b" was the most troublesome for the long term. Something strange happened to his little ego during that period, and it took about 2 years to undo. I always try to praise for hard work rather than intelligence.

My advice to any parent of an elementary aged kid with an impending grade skip is to what Master of None suggests, and "Just keep talking to him so he has a frame of reference for what's going on and doesn't peg his self esteem on anything in particular." In addition, have the discussion with his teachers and principal.

Finally, I'll just point out that this was only one experience, and there are multiple variables that played into it: my son's personality, the teachers, the school district, the general "vibe" of the school, etc. As Howler Karma said, you won't know until you try it! I wish you all the best. Having a HG child can be a hard road to travel at times -- at least in regards to education.

Kitty

I would try my darndest to have my child not base their whole self image around being the best and brightest. There's always going to be someone better and brighter. Watch Good Will Hunting and pay attention to the blonde mentor character. You don't want that for your child.

Kitty - these are some of the reasons why homeschool/unschooling is a least-worst situation for pg/hg kids. Schools are not always the best setting for them to thrive or be themselves.

With DS, he didn't need the school or teachers to point out his differentness. It was obvious as soon as he walked in a room or opened his gob. He had the perfectionism issue before he even started pre-k too.

DS didn't particularly like the attention of the 'stardom' from the teacher. It wasn't positive, far from it. When DS was 5, in pre-k, and in the pre-k/k/1st grade class , DS told the teacher that no one tells the [DS's name] what to do and that he didn't need her to learn. The teacher said that he was correct about not needing her to learn. She really didn't know how to respond to DS or what to do, which left us with a gaping hole.

Last year (at 6 and in k), DS didn't fare much better in a mixed aged setting with kids from pre-k to 8th grade. He didn't like being the 'mascot' by the older students and found it to be condescending. He also had a bully incident in school that wasn't pleasant either and remained awkward.

Then, there was the aspect of producing work in school and motivation. At the structured school, DS produced more but still underachieved. We didn't really have the grades and external motivation (ie. rewards/punishments) there much because DS was technically in pre-k. Still, it was there with punishments if DS didn't cooperate. At the unstructured school, DS underachieved and didn't do much work if it wasn't perfect. The teachers tried to motivate DS externally but this would often backfire. DS would then lose recess because he didn't cooperate or produce work. It was frustrating.

DS is very often not externally motivated, no matter how much you dangle a carrot in front of him. I guess I assumed that private gifted schools were somewhat knowledgeable about these matters and what to do. Unfortunately, that was a mistake and naive of me.

Between the teachers, other students, curriculum, etc. there's just so many variables that can make schools less than desirable and more of a hurdle, hindrance, and headache than a solution or answer. I'm not saying that schools can't provide for some pg/hg kids because I've heard tales on this board where it has been the case, but there's a lot of variables that can send a pg/hg kid sideways.