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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 407
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Joined: Feb 2009
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She does quite a bit of learning on her own - yet we expect her to complete her homework, etc. It works if started early. Most kids are not raised that way today - not just gifted ones. I studied my non-American friends parenting methods because I wanted a kid that was more like my generation - not a spoiled one.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,478
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Definitely a question of personal values and philosophies.
I have no intention of training my son to tolerate boredom. I think motivation is self-defining but it is drive that leads to action. I also don't think the world is changed by people who consistently do what's expected of them.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856
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Joined: Oct 2011
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I'm confused-- is this a typo? Did you mean that one may "see" priorities? Or a statement that it is possible for parents to shape motivation?
I'm not sure that I agree that such a thing is possible for all kids.
Some kids are their own people from birth-- and NO amount of external pressors exerts much influence on their intrinsic processes without their assent. They are the ones that proudly wear teeshirts that proclaim "I reject your reality and substitute my own!" They aren't oppositional or defiant until you cross their internal agenda... but more like perniciously indifferent.
Persuasive methods may work to a limited degree, but only as far as their perspective and maturity allow them to accept the logic of what they are being told.
The bottom line is that most 10yo's DON'T have reason to believe that studying hard now will seem more important to themselves at 30yo than playing more WoW instead will have. After all, this is really about aligning priorities, not about intrinsic motivation in a general sense. My DD is motivated all right. She's just not motivated in the ways that the adults in her life would prefer.
This has always been a tremendous challenge with my DD. Even as a toddler, you could not do ANYTHING with her that required her active cooperation unless you convinced her first. She was quite logical... but still, she was two/three/four/five, albeit a PG kid. I can recall having to explain to her WHY she should bother to become toilet trained. Truly not kidding; this was a very striking example of something that she saw no particular benefit in, and felt was more about OUR desires than hers. I could frame this one, because I had the same reaction. Anyone attempting to set priorities for my DD is pretty much setting themselves up for embarrassment. Anyone attempting to set priorities for me is doing pretty much the same. You CAN get compliance from either of us, depending on the circumstances, but don't mistake compliance for motivation.
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 453
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Joined: Apr 2012
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I can recall having to explain to her WHY she should bother to become toilet trained. Truly not kidding; this was a very striking example of something that she saw no particular benefit in, and felt was more about OUR desires than hers. Dealing with this right now. DD is going to be 3.5yo in couple of weeks and is still not potty trained. I have tried all the tricks in the books on motivating her but like you say, she clearly sees this as a discomfort to her and a benefit to us, so why bother. When I lament about how other kids her age are potty trained she simply says," I know, Mom, I know. I am sorry I can't stop using the diapers and start using the potty. But I am just not going to do it."
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,513 Likes: 1
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Joined: Nov 2012
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I think we need to define a type of motivation and its mode of expression to make headway here. Are we focusing solely on intrinsic motivation, or are we allowing for a blend of external cues? Are we looking for inner character development, which may not be outwardly perceptible, or are we focusing on external results? I leave it to the OP to guide the discussion in this regard.
What is to give light must endure burning.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 116
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 116 |
Thanks aquinas- I was originally interested in the blend of both intrinsic and external factors which together work to shape both character and external results. I've enjoyed reading both sides. However in order to narrow it in a bit, I am interested specifically in what external factors can motivate children which will allow them to ultimately (as adults) be successful and produce external results. Because this group is what it is  I'll answer the next question you're thinking: Being successful -defined as the then adult feeling self-worth/contentment with the way they have utilized their uniquely gifted mind. But I don't want to focus on the definition of successful (I know it's tempting). I would rather the discussion head in the direction of focussing on the motivation that leads to a solid work ethic. Thank you for your thoughtful responses.
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Joined: Nov 2012
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Joined: Nov 2012
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My gut instinct is to caution you against using intermittent extrinsic motivators heavily. Some self determination theory researchers-- such as Deci-- find prior reliance on extrinsic motivators causes a marked decline in intrinsic motivation when the same task is later performed without external rewards.
Personally, I would try to be seen modeling intrinsic motivation wherever possible. This could involve openly voicing the importance of a behavior as you do it to reinforce the unspoken message. That way, through introjection, the underlying character attribute behind the behavior is internalized as a part of the child's--or adult's!-- identity.
What is to give light must endure burning.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Here's a stab at it.
I can't say it's 100% universal, but a curious and active mind seems to be relatively consistent amongst the gifted?
So, harnass those mechanisms. Curiosity can easily supply motivated, drive, and determination. An active mind gets the job done. I model a curious mind all the time. I ask DS as many whys as e has ever asked me. Make ridiculous hypotheses. Etc.
Any subject, any material, has some knowledge, some hidden abstraction layer, connection, meaning, that can be routed around for if one believes it is not just OK but awesome to wonder about such things. Mundane multiple choice test? Au contraire... try to see if there is a pattern or give it a Turing test. Or wonder how many variations of that test there are. Or...
Meet a new person who seems poised to discuss the local sport team with you...ask them about their job (people seem to like to talk about themselves,) figure out their expertise, be curious about them, etc.
Read about great scientists and there seems to be a pivotal single curious question that launches them.
So that's my theory, harnass and nurture the natural mechanism that is already there in spades and prepare it to lead the way. And support and encourage the slow to answer questions and sprinkle in admitting your own "I don't know."..."But now I NEED to know too."
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
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Joined: Feb 2011
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My gut instinct is to caution you against using intermittent extrinsic motivators heavily. Some self determination theory researchers-- such as Deci-- find prior reliance on extrinsic motivators causes a marked decline in intrinsic motivation when the same task is later performed without external rewards.
Personally, I would try to be seen modeling intrinsic motivation wherever possible. This could involve openly voicing the importance of a behavior as you do it to reinforce the unspoken message. That way, through introjection, the underlying character attribute behind the behavior is internalized as a part of the child's--or adult's!-- identity. Indeed-- and further, some of the more interesting further research into intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation finds that tying EXtrinsic motivational strategies to intrinsically rewarding tasks actually robs them of their intrinsically motivational value.That's a very sobering reason to be wary of sticker charts and treats for tasks that children enjoy doing.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,898
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Yesyes to the dangers of providing extrinsic motivators in the hope of developing intrinsic motivation. But I bet I'm not the only one who does it despite the evidence; we offer entitlement to minutes of time playing computer games for various things we want DS to do, notably music practice. There's a class of things which I am so convinced are worthwhile for him to do that I am going to coerce him into doing them if necessary; he does have intrinsic motivation, but it only stretches far enough for him to want to have done them, rather than far enough for him to actually do them in preference to reading right now... So sue me :-/
Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
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