Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WJ-III Achievement ?s

We too have a kiddo with a dysgraphia dx. For her, the major clues were delayed gross motor skills (the original dx was dyspraxia), timed parts of the WISC were average (truly spot on average compared to 98th-99.9th in many/most of the other parts of the WISC), and consistent worse performance on timed or fluency measures. She's the one I was mentioning earlier with the WJ scores.

She is one, however, who was much more easily recognized as gifted than my other 2e kiddo b/c, while slower with output, her depth of thinking & writing content as well as reading comprehension were really obvious to teachers. For instance, when other first graders were reading Henry & Mudge, she was reading Harry Potter &, unlike your dd, she was one who would give detailed in depth responses when asked to tell about what she'd read. One other example that comes to mind was a poem they were asked to write in elementary school which started with the prompt "I am [two things that describe you]." A lot of the kids' poems started with stuff like "I am tall and blond." Dd's started as "I am a slave to the desert but my heart belongs to the sea."

I totally get how much harder it is to get accommodations for gifted kids who don't "out" themselves so obviously, though. My youngest is more like your dd and it was really hard in the early yrs.

Jtooit, the more you write about your dd the more she sounds like my dysgraphic ds. Like Cricket2's dd, he also is dyspraxic. His discrepancy between PSI and other parts of the WISC was around 3 standard deviations, but I think that any discrepancy larger than either 1 or 1.5 SDs can be reason for a further look and a possible concern. When your child also has a sibling with dyslexia and the issues you've seen with writing and school personnel not seeing the same child you know... that all adds up to good reasons to have a private neuropsych educational eval.

polarbear

I have no idea if this is related to my ds' LDs at all.. but fwiw... we had the same thing happen when he was in K - he had learned to read (who knows when?) and he never told anyone. We were on vacation during winter break visiting relatives, and my SIL gave me a book that she said my ds might like to read and I made some comment about sure, we'll keep that for when he learns how to read... and she told me he already knew how to read... and sure enough, I asked him if he could read and he said yes and he read to me - hilariously funny in some ways, frustrating as can be in others. After that holiday revelation, he went back to school, admitted he could read to his teacher, and read his way through all the classroom's leveled books in just a few weeks.


I don't think a child is ever too young for a parent to listen to their gut instinct if something doesn't seem right. I listened to teachers tell us our ds' handwriting was completely age-appropriate for too many years and believed what they said... and by the end of 2nd grade my ds was so anxious he became very close to clinically depressed and was having panic attacks not only at school but at home. I would give anything to have been aware enough when he was 4-5 years old to realize that his reluctance to read, his letter reversals, his refusal to do what seemed like should be simple work for him, were all more than just "quirky" kid things. There was a huge red flag in some testing he did for consideration for our school district's HG program... and how I wish they had thought to mention, hey, this might be something more than developmentally age-appropriate. I realize they can't really suggest something like that and they don't want to worry parents, but that was the first place he was tested and in hindsight it stands out clear as night vs day.


Totally typical for a fine-motor dysgraphic kid.

The teacher put her in enrichment anyway because she was the first kid done everyday and getting the work done correctly. I honestly do not have a vested interest in the Math placement. A friend of mine, who teaches at the school, has always said it is a joke for enrichment.


All of this sounds VERY much like my ds - he has a bit of an expressive language issue that is mixed in with the dysgraphia - I think it's all probably related in the area of the brain function that's impacted. He struggled tremendously in elementary school with things like summarizing what he read (without prompting - but he has what seems like a photographic memory if you ask him specific questions). He's worked with an SLP for several years and continues to work with her on written expression and it's helped quite a bit - but it's been an area that's made it really hard at times for school staff to see how really smart he is, because so much of school depends on written output. If your dd has a challenge in this area, getting her accommodations and AT and remediation can really help.


I would request they give her the TOWL (Test of Written Language) - this is a VERY common and widely used test and I'm guessing there's a 99.999999% chance your school district uses it routinely in evaluating student's writing ability for IEP evals.


I also think that due to the family history of dyslexia, it would be reasonable to ask for a "real" reading analysis, not just the routine DRA. It sounds like you'll get there now that you've contracted the district...hopefully!


It's possible you might be able to find a sample test that would cover the same things the state test does - our school district keeps samples online and uses them to help prep students for the test each year. I had my ds take a sample test at home when we were trying to understand his test scores - he scored one point below "Advanced" on writing in 3rd grade in spite of not being able to write *at all* independently in class.. and the school district wouldn't share specifics about how he scored on different parts of the test, so I used the sample test as a way of showing that he was scoring very well on multiple choice questions about grammar/punctuation etc, but wasn't able to write any sentences on the prompt to write a paragraph.


This is the issue that I think almost all of us 2e parents have had - it's tough to deal with lack of access to appropriately intellectually challenging classwork because of the 2e issues... but doing what you're doing - figuring out everything you can now and dealing with it - will put your dd in a place where she'll be able to access higher level classes and appropriate acceleration in a few years and she'll take off - really and truly!


Keep advocating! I hope the pupil services person has influence and can get her appropriately placed.


There were - I don't have time to post them at the moment, but promise to return and add them here later today.

Best wishes,

polarbear

This cracked me up. This is my ds13. He had to write an about me essay years ago. It was this in depth self psychoanalysis about his ADHD and how his mind works compared to other kids. It was mind blowing for his age.

Polarbear. I can't thank you enough for your input. I really do want to go back to the school with suggests of how to evaluate her well not just retesting over again. I don't mind the test, but I would like them to yield productive information. They are a K-2 school and I don't believe most of these things get looked at until the next building in 3 grade or so. I may need to press them on having the other buildings staff evaluate her or work with an outside neuropsychologist. If I can find the answers and help her I don't care who does it. My oldest had all the normal signs of dyslexia and still wasn't identified until 4th grade. I don't want her to have to go through that long period of confidence destroying waiting.

The more suggestions I can make to the school to really root this out the better. She is a sweet loving little ray of sunshine. Some days she just looks sad and crushed coming home from school. It makes me sad to think she may have an LD but I'd rather know sooner.

Jtooit, just to add-- this may well be beyond the school's expertise. (Our district has a history of completely ignoring dyslexic and dysgraphic kids.) In your shoes, especially with the family history, I'd find a private neuropsych to do a comprehensive evaluation. Since you suspect a disability, the assessment ought to be covered by insurance; if not, there may be county or state funding available.

I agree with addressing it soon-- all this stuff takes time, but if there's a 2E issue, she is likely very frustrated at school. We framed testing to our DS as "everyone is going to try to make school fit you better" and indeed, knowing what we know has been very helpful in putting the right things into place.

DeeDee

I agree with an outside evaluation. I would like to get the school to agree to the outside eval prior to doing it. I will do it either way but I am thinking if they agree to the idea first, it is easier to get them to look at and accept the results. The main reason I believe they accepted her IQ scores was because the know the Clinic and tester well. I will probably start looking for someone on Monday given it may take a long time to get in. I will approach them about it as I am looking for someone to evaluate her.