Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Confused about gifted pull out program

We have been homeschooling for 5 years now - we attempted for years to see if DS10 could possibly have access to the gifted program as a homeschooler and our county refused until a few weeks ago (we honestly stopped trying probably 2 years ago and hadn't given it much thought lately until the phone call we got). He has been getting Speech services as a homeschool student for several years and someone at the state level noticed that he had gifted written on his IEP (I submitted private testing years ago trying to get him access to the program where we were told he more than qualified for the program but he wasn't allowed access to it)and so they contacted me wanting to know why he was not in the gifted program...they informed us that they were now going to allow him access to the program.

The only catch is they called it an "all or nothing IEP"...meaning that if for any reason this gifted class does not work out and we pull him from the class, then he loses his Speech services and his whole IEP.

Our zoned school's gifted program consists of a 30 minutes once a day class at the beginning of the school day. So every day, we drive in for 30 minutes. I was very skeptical at first wondering what the heck are they going to accomplish in 30 minutes once a day. DS10 was just excited to be able to possibly meet other kids that understood him so I was willing to give it a try.

We are now into week 4 of the program and I am sitting here wondering if what has been going on in his class is the "norm" for gifted pull-outs. The teacher has 24 kids in the class from grades K-6. In the 4 weeks he has been in class - they have read 2 plays aloud (both plays only had roles for 5-6 kids so the kids who did not have a part just sat there and read along - my son informed me that yesterday one child spoke up and said he was tired of the plays and that this was the 32nd play they had read since the beginning of the school year), they did one "cool" activity that my son enjoyed where they used index cards to measure the distance between the planets, they shared their New Year's resolutions aloud, and now they have spent 4 days researching for a written report they all must do on a President. My son does not have a student ID so he is not allowed access to the school's internet so while the other students go online to research, my son sits and reads a book the teacher found for him on his President choice. They plan on spending at least the next week to two weeks researching and then writing out their reports. Is this really the norm as to what occurs in a gifted pull out? I was SO disappointed and my son is totally bored out of his mind and is now dreading having to go in every morning. These are all things they do in a regular classroom...the only higher order thinking activity they did was the planet activity. It just seems like the teacher is trying to come up with busy work...how are these activities supposed to meet the needs of gifted students? I am now frustrated because if we pull him he will lose his Speech therapy which he honestly needs. Can anyone share if this is the same kind of stuff that goes on in your child's gifted pull out program? We were really hoping that they were going to do some neat group interactions that would really allow our son to think and get creative.

Hmph.

I'd ask for an explanation of THAT one-- in writing.

I suspect that would be considered a violation of federal law, since it would be a unilateral placement change without any meeting or changes to the IEP.

It's also openly coercive in terms of placement. Which is, in and of itself, a big no-no.

Under IDEA, you are part of the team that makes decisions about placement.

Ditto what Howler said.. and fwiw (sadly) - I've found through years of advocating for my 2e ds that sometimes the school staff will tell you things re IEPs etc that simply aren't true, and sometimes school staff are uninformed. You might be able to ask this question at wrightslaw.org and get an answer... or if you have a local parent's advocate group (that offers advice for free) I'd ask them how to respond to the school's insisting it's an "all or nothing IEP" now.

Re the gifted pull-out - all programs are going to be different. If this program is boring to your ds and you're not interested in it, take him out - I can't imagine putting in the time to drive to it every day just to have your ds sit and be bored.

FWIW, our local gifted pullout program sometimes seems not-so-out-of-the-ordinary compared to what kids in regular classrooms are doing - but I think that's a combination of *good* classroom programming in our local regular classrooms and maybe an expectation of something amazing and/or "out there" because it's aimed at gifted kids. Some of the projects my kids did were even repeated every year. BUT - there were three things about our program that were hugely beneficial to my kids and to all the other kids I've known who've been in it: the teachers were trained in gifted education, so they "got" the kids and they did challenge them to think deeper. The second thing was the kids loved being in the classroom with the other gifted kids - and with the overall faster pace of work and higher level of conversations. The third thing that was great - my kids just loved the program - way more than I thought they would! So have our friends' kids. It sounds like your program doesn't really meet any kind of need and isn't very satisfying to your ds, so I'd be inclined to opt out.

Best wishes,

polarbear

My DD8's experience with a G/T pull-out was a giant disappointment. We yanked her out of school and homeschooled for K (when it quickly became apparent that the school's plan was "do nothing until next year"), then sent her back to school for 1st and the first couple months of 2nd, during which time she had access to a daily pull-out of more than an hour (nearly 2 hours in 2nd, actually). We were told that the pull-outs would effectively replace her homeroom language arts/math components.

The irony is that the school adamantly refused to skip her a year ahead, partially on the basis of fear of gaps. When it was firmly established that the solution was a mess, and the school and district had no intention of doing any better, we began homeschooling again, and DW is currently identifying and addressing all the gaps that the school's ill-conceived mishmash solution created.

- DD was the only 1st grader in the G/T pull-out for 1st grade, and no differentiation took place. DD was instructed (or not, depending on how you look at it) at the level of the rest of the class, which consisted of one 2nd grader and half a dozen 3rd graders.

- The work in GT was often best categorized as "enrichment" rather than the kind of serious LA/math work we were told would be taking place, and which we were assured would be happening one grade level above normal.

- No effort was made to coordinate the schedule for DD's homeroom and pull-out activities. As a result, she did LA/math all day, and missed out on science, social studies, art, and PE.

- As you can tell from previous items in this list, part of DD's day was spent in activities that were over her head and not adequately explained, the rest in activities that were significantly beneath her, creating a situation where she felt like a total outcast in both environments. Her self-confidence cratered.

DD did do a play in 1st grade with her GT class, and everyone had a part (most had multiple parts, actually). They didn't just read it, they performed it. If I were in your situation, in which I was already homeschooling, the G/T class were an option, and the program was correctly advertised as enrichment, I wouldn't have any problem with sending my DD to this class, since DW would be available to ensure that the rest of her school day was still meaningful and productive.

So, yes and no. We were HIGHLY disappointed, but if this same option were offered to your DS, you'd probably find it an acceptable and significant upgrade over what he's offered today.

It's actually possible DD will return to school in 4th grade, because:

1) The GT program separates grades 1-3 and 4-6 at her school, and the 4-6 group gets half the day in GT. This should mean that what the school originally promised DD actually happens in GT, where it's real LA/math work, and not just enrichment.

2) We are effecting the grade skip the school/district refused to do via homeschooling, as that's the grade level we enrolled her in. She'll have iron-clad results to back this up, as we're arranging for her to take the state's assessment test they give all 3rd graders.

My DS is only 5 and in K so I don't have much experience but I'll let you know what they do with him FWIW. He is pulled out once every two weeks for about 20mins. From what I've been able to discern they read a book, have the kids learn to ask questions and question everything, go over some math problems from books like The Grapes of Math, talk about paintings hanging in the teacher's room, etc. It seems to be a random hodge-podge of things that the kids might find interesting.

This group appears to have been put together after I talked to the teacher and principal about some of my concerns. I don't get the feeling that this school usually has the kindergarteners involved in GT so it is a bit of a learning curve for all involved.

I know nothing about IEPs so I can't comment there but it seems like your DS isn't happy. It does not sound worth your, or his, time. Can you talk to the GT teacher and ask her about this?

I hope this ends up working out for you. Good luck!

p.s. If you end up keeping him there i would make them give him a student ID or the ability to use a school account so he can participate fully. He is currently a student there whether enrolled full time or not.

Thanks all for the comments. We have tried public school twice and both times was just such a mess...they refused the acceleration that was recommended both times by psychologists after testing...hence why we homeschool. I never know what to believe when it comes to his IEP - it is a different story every time we talk to someone at the county level. His IEP started when he was 3 and he had both Speech and OT (he has Dyspraxia) and had been getting services since then....this past year, they dropped his OT which floored me and so I asked for an Assistive Technology assessment (which they fought me tooth and nail stating he was not allowed that assessment since he was a homeschooler)...I contacted the Dept of ED at the state level and spoke with everyone I could find and they informed me that yes, he was eligible for an AT assessment and they informed our county of this and so they did the assessment finally (which showed he more than doubled his written output when he was allowed to use technology devices instead of handwriting). I think by calling the State level they realized he had been denied gifted services by the county and we were informed he was finally allowed to take part in the gifted program which is when our county told us about the whole "all or nothing" IEP.

We had really hoped that this gifted pullout would be something he would enjoy and he was really excited about it because he was really wanting to connect with other gifted children. As of now, DS shares that they do not do any kind of team work and that he never gets a chance to actually talk with the other kids because of the type of teacher driven activities they are doing. He has been sick the past 2 days and when I asked him about how he felt that he was missing the gifted class his response was that he was happy....so I guess that sums it all up :-( So now I suppose I need to once again call the state level to find out if it against Wrights Law that they deny him Speech services all because this 30 minute/once a day program really is not very helpful :-(