Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Emotional outbursts leading to...being expelled?

I have been there! My son started having meltdowns and outbursts Kindergarten. The teacher was really fantastic and helped him through the year by giving special jobs (taking stuff to the office/other teachers and whatnot), reading to other kids, and giving him 1st grade worksheets... same deal in 1st grade, though with less success. 2nd grade things devolved completely... he had an older teacher who was wanting to retire and had zero extra energy for my son. We were in full-on crisis mode before I finally accepted my son needed SERIOUS help.

We did end up doing medication for his mood and his impulsiveness, and we got him evaluated by a neuropsychologist. This summer we got him in to a great cognitive behavior therapist, and then when school started he began doing group therapy with the cog. behavior therapist. He's been doing a MILLION times better in school this year.

I would strongly recommend they get him evaluated by a neuropsychologist or a developmental pediatrician. They are really the only doctors who are going to be able to do the full amount of testing/assessment, plus they will provide a full report and recommendations for what the school can do to help the kiddo.

Good luck to them. I wish I could give them a giant hug through the internet. Where they are SUCKS. They have to give in and accept the help of medical professionals... the sooner they realize that the sooner things will get better!

You don't mention how the academic fit is for your DN. Have attempts been made so that he gets to spend a significant amount of his time in school actually learning academic material?

It's hard to know what is causing a sensitive kid to act so stressed out until the stressor is removed, but I would have to guess that unless the child is at a school with a full time gifted program, the job of handling oneself while all day long while not learning hardly anything, and not being 'allowed' to ask the questions that matter most to the child is a pretty big one.

I like the book, Transforming the Difficult Child' and I think the workbook stands on it's own very well, as a way to 'hothouse' that kind of maturity, but I'd hate it if growing a kid's maturity means that then the child can be left in a poor fit classroom.

See what I mean?
Grinity

Grinity--apparently there is a gifted program, but the students must be recommended by their teacher and there is a 'behavior component,' which apparently would rule him out at this point even though the teacher is generally supportive. I don't think that DN has himself raised the issue of not learning enough, and I'm not sure anyone else thinks that is a problem at this point. But I suppose it could be part of it, or at least contributing. I'm not sure how one would sort that out--our own DD complained quite a bit about not learning new stuff before we started afterschooling, but it makes sense that not every kid would do that.

epoh--that sounds a lot like what happened with our DD as far as teachers and good and bad fits, and I'm glad to hear your son is doing better. Maybe my sister should have DN checked out some more; there's a new school psychologist they're supposed to meet with soon who might have some suggestions about that, I guess, so I hope things stay relatively stable at least until then. I think part of the difficulty too is that they aren't confident everyone at the school is really on their side. Hopefully if they decide to get an IEP team together and learn more about it they will feel differently.

Dbat - well, they aren't entirely wrong, the school ppl aren't 100% on the child's side. Their jobs are their first priority, not the child. A school psychologist isn't typically qualified to diagnose things like Autism or ODD or much of anything, to be honest. They need to go to their own doctor and start the process through their insurance.

Yes but having the school psych do a battery of tests also sets the parents up a) to possibly get an IEP and b) to reject the findings and request that the district provide a neuropsych eval or other testing. It's not guaranteed to help but I think it is the best first step, especially if there are certain school personnel who are already viewed as allies. This is where it's a good idea to spend some time with Wrightslaw and brush up on Child Find, IDEA, FAPE, etc

I second epoh on this - it sounds like your dn's parents are acting (at the moment) based on fears of what can happen at school. Some of those fears are unfounded - the school *can't* make them medicate a child and can't diagnose a medical disability. My advice is that they need to refocus their worries and efforts by concentrating on what their ds needs for *life* - not for school. It sounds like he is struggling with *something* and no one really understands what at this point. It truly could be *anything* - and a neuropsych and/or developmental ped are the professionals who can most easily help to *start* untangling the "what's up" puzzle.

It can be scary thinking your child needs help and it can take a long time (and may cost $) to get the private evals - but the knowledge gained through those evals is crucial both for parents to understand what is going on and how to remediate/accommodate/etc... *and* having the evals gives the parents important and credible information to use when advocating at school. Just as a brief example, before my 2e ds was diagnosed in 2nd grade, his teacher was beyond convinced he has ADHD - and I'm sure if a school *could* require a child be medicated she would have been greeting him at the door each morning with a huge pill He doesn't have ADHD, and medicating for it would not have done him one bit of good... as well as it would have deferred us from discovering the disability that was really behind his extreme anxiety.

You mentioned homeschooling - homeschooling can be very helpful in getting out of a situation like your dn is currently in, and might be very helpful for him in many ways - but I would still recommend seeking the neuropsych or dev ped eval. Homeschooling to avoid a situation that is troublesome rather than homeschooling (or continuing in public school) with the knowledge of what's up and trying to learn how to work with/through/remediate/accommodate it are two very different things - and if you don't figure it out now and work toward whatever is needed to help with it now, he's only going to be faced with another situation later on in life where he's potentially unable to cope.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Now knowing how the parents feel about the school overall I'd probably weigh in with homeschooling for the time being if they are willing and able, with them seeking more information about their son's profile and putting him regularly in group social situations with his peers to practice things. From everyone I've ever known with an IEP it does take diligence and communication is so important from the school. As a previous poster said, the school personnel, with all due respect to those who really care about the kids and who try so hard, overall many of them have their job as the bottom line as well as 1-not getting sued 2-not ending up on the news for something negative.


I'd second the info about school psychologists not being able to diagnose intricate 2E issues. Once my DD came home from school and said "what does ADHD mean and why would I have it?" I tried not to over react. I said "it means...said what each word stood for...and could mean that your brain is set up different than some others but also that you can have REALLY COOL ideas!!!"

For a child that age who is acting like your nephew, and likely very intune and sensitive, the break of homeschooling would be nice and also lessening the anxiety of what will happen from day to day for the parents. Everyone will sleep better.

oh yes and have private testing done - you pay, you keep. And find out if the potential psychologist or practice has an association/contract with the school district they live in (the one used for referrals, school observations...lawsuits... We found out about this little potential fact when we lived in our last state.

Hi,
Thanks again for your comments. Just an update...and also (yet another) cautionary tale about school psychologists. So my dear sister and her husband went in for the first meeting to try to set up the IEP and the school psychologist was there (i.e., the on-staff school psychologist with whom they would have to work to develop any IEP). The upshot was that the school psychologist announced that they didn't believe the independent psychological evaluation that said dear nephew had difficulty controlling his emotions but with support would be expected to improve over time. Apparently they indicated that he must have some disorder and were discussing which one it might be--all without having even met the kid. So the parents didn't see this going anywhere positive, despite the teacher's support, and have decided to homeschool for the foreseeable future. While the school wasn't threatening to expel him (yet), apparently in Georgia if you are expelled you can't go back until high school, so they didn't want to risk it and might try to get him readmitted after a period of homeschooling and working on his emotional control with social skills classes and interaction with other homeschooled kids. I'm pretty sure it will all work out in the long run, and I expect that he will be a happy, emotionally healthy, productive person when he is older--he just needs to work through this with positive support, which I think he will be getting now, so I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for him.

I'm sorry the school psychologist was just as useless for them as they were for us, but I'm very glad they have the option/ability to homeschool! I don't know how things are where they live, but I know in some places homeschool kids can go to the public school a few days a week for certain classes (music, art, whatever).

Dbat, I am so sorry to hear about the school psych (alas... not as shocked as I should be). I hope your DN will get what he needs!

DeeDee