Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Huge disparity in scores...

Two years ago, my daughter's kindergarten teacher decided to have her tested. Her scores were: verbal-135, non-verbal-106. Although there was a large disparity, they decided just to wait until they screened again in 2nd grade to do anything further.

Second grade has come and she bombed the screener, so hard that they won't do any further testing. This time around her scores were: verbal-117, non-verbal-84. I know that these scores reflect the testing situation (rowdy full class vs. 1 on 1, and only oral directions). When I asked her what was happened she said that people kept making noises and then she would completely forget what the teacher said in the first place or she'd remember the end of the question and not the beginning or visa versa. It stressed her out, so she just didn't write any answer.

I know major disparities such as this generally indicates some sort of learning disability. There is a definite family history of ADHD at play.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had a similar problem. If you have, what was the outcome? I'm frustrated because I know that the programming that the gifted class offers is much more her learning style, and she would benefit greatly.

Is it outside testing time?

Thanks so much for any help you may be able to give.

Welcome Corby - our ds has scatter in his test scores (although his largest discrepancies aren't verbal vs non-verbal); for him, it's related to an LD/disability but that's not the case with all children. It definitely sounds like you have reason to suspect there may be either an LD or ADHD based on family history, so I would recommend following up with private testing through a neuropsych educational evaluation. I would also, for now, look at the testing as a screen for ADHD/LD rather than simply a way to be sure her scores were accurate for the gifted screen. If she has an LD or ADHD, it is quite possibly impacting her academic achievement at school, which in turn will also possibly keep her from being able to qualify for the gifted program later on. Many of us here with 2e children have found that the very early years of elementary school are focused on remediating and learning how to accommodate for the challenges, which means sometimes our kids aren't able to access gifted programming at school - but when we charge forward and take on those challenges early our children benefit greatly and are able to shine by the end of elementary school or middle school and then do qualify for gifted programs.

You could also request testing through the school, but we've found that we receive much more thorough info and more useful info through private testing.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I don't remember exact scores, but I do remember my gifted ds12 getting a 18%-ile non-verbal score in 1st grade. I was shocked and baffled. I think it was a lot of exactly what you say - he had trouble processing oral directions and the class was loud. The next year, he easily made it into the gifted program (luckily, everyone was tested in 2nd grade; he had been tested by recommendation in 1st). None of my other kids had that experience with a test that was so off, and he has scored extremely highly on nonverbal ever since. However, he was at the time and still is on an IEP for speech and verbal apraxia/expressive language. He was supposed to be tested separately and when that was done, and he was able to read the directions himself instead of hearing them, it made all the difference.
So, outside testing is definitely an option, but it might not even be needed. For my son, his verbal was very high from the onset, but the nonverbal was stuff he hadn't really seen (the figural and spatial stuff) and I think he just really needed to understand the directions. However, if you think that there is a chance that your daughter has ADHD, I would try to find a good tester who specializes in 2E if you can afford it. My son was receiving services from 18mos on, and I think some of the misperceptions by teachers (he can't speak, so he must be stupid)made for a tough environment. Even though now all his teachers pretty much view him as exceptionally gifted, I find myself still defensive at times, I'm sure as a result of those early years (btw- when I asked why he wasn't tested separately in first grade, their too-quick but honest answer was, "well, we don't normally expect kids needing accommodations to get recommended for gifted testing.").
For us, it honestly did make a difference getting him into the gifted program in 2nd grade (his scores in the fall of 2nd grade were good enough to get him bumped up mid-year). The teachers viewed him differently and then they spoke to him differently, gave him more challenging work, had more patience with his convoluted explanations, etc... I know that this is not how it is SUPPOSED to work. Teachers are supposed to see potential whether or not they're in gifted, and kids can still get enrichment at home, yada yada yada... However, in our case, it actually did make a difference, so if you think that your dd is gifted and would benefit from the GT program, I'd try to get her in, in the next few years if not this year.
Good luck - and don't take those numbers to heart! I spent a week or two wondering if I was crazy, then I just realized that I knew my ds, and every test since then has borne this out.

I think that if there had been one test with one discrepancy in scores one time, further testing might not be needed, but there are four things here that are coming together and I think warrant further testing:

* The dip between verbal and non-verbal is present across two sets of test scores and is larger than one SD.

* The student noted that she had difficulty remembering instructions due to classroom distractions.

* The overall drop in scores.

* Family history of ADHD.

The first three things might be ADHD, might be nothing, or might be due to a number of other reasons. With or without the family history of ADHD, it would be helpful to have a full evaluation by a private professional in order to fully understand what's going on.

polarbear

My DS9 has had many test done and we have had issues with consistency with his tests scores. (Which has made it harder to get what he needs in school) His subgroups within his IQ were also more then 26 points different which is when they tell you not to use the full scale IQ score for them.

Anyway because we have had large swings in tests I have done a lot of reading and have recently found that Children with ADHD and maybe other learning disabilities more often have swings in tests scores and performance then gifted kids without a LD or ADHD.

I do know that my son is gifted but also has ADHD. I have copied a quote from a paper I recently read that you may find interesting.

Also, I believe I have read this but not positive....If they have scored high on tests it normally isn't a fluke. Rather the lower tests scores show that the performanace of the child isn't always consistent. This is typical of children with ADHD.

I am not saying your child is adhd. Please note that everything I have been reading is specific to ADHD gifted children so this is why I am mentioning it. The same could be found in other situations too that I am not reading about. It at leasts gives you something to look into.

This is what I copied from an article:
(the article is discussing how sometimes it is difficult to determine if the child is gifted, ADHD, or both.

One characteristic of ADHD that does not have a counterpart in children who are gifted is variability of task performance. In almost every setting, children with ADHD tend to be highly inconsistent in the quality of their performance (i.e., grades, chores) and the amount of time used to accomplish tasks (Barkley, 1990). Children who are gifted routinely maintain consistent efforts and high grades in classes when they like the teacher and are intellectually challenged, although they may resist some aspects of the work, particularly repetition of tasks perceived as dull. Some gifted children may become intensely focused and determined (an aspect of their intensity) to produce a product that meets their self-imposed standards.

If you have additional questions please let me know.