Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment good test for 2.8 year old?

DS2.8 will be going through developmental screening next Thursday with the main concern being Autism mainly for speech delay, tantrums, sleep problems, refusal to follow directions, etc. but a lot of it may be masked giftedness (knew all upper and lower case letters and sounds before 24 months, started reading words phonetically at 2 years 4 months, counted objects to 20 by 24months, started with basic addition little after 2.5 years, etc.). The screening is through Early Intervention programs (since they could push for us getting in faster than going through doctor referrals) and it's at one of the bigger developmental screening centers in Chicago. I have always worried that a lot of the "symptoms" he's showing are more due to his special gifts than autism itself as he's super focused on whatever he's wanting to learn at the moment. I really hope they will take all that into account and not misdiagnose him.

So, my question is, if I have any influence over what happens next week, is there any IQ test that would be good in this kind of situation? He is no show off so there is always a chance that he will show absolutely no effort in anything. But if he's in the mood, he'll take the testing and have fun with it. Some kind of "ability" / "knowledge" type of test? ... pointing out letters, numbers, shapes, colors, patterns, etc.? He will not follow any directions or anything like that but would probably show what he knows if it was put right in front of him.

Any suggestions? I am not against Autism diagnosis, so don't take me wrong ... but don't want want him to have to go through therapies and special ed and who knows what else if he doesn't need it and what he really needs is letting him explore freely the world around?

At his age there really aren't any reliable IQ tests.

And, if I may speak freely, if his behavior has risen the point that he's been referred to IE screening, I would start to try to consider the possibility something really is going on with your son. Gifted-ness can cause a child to "look" a lot different from his or her peers, but at his age, behavior far enough outside of the norm to warrant testing is unlikely to be due solely to intelligence. I'm curious, what symptoms has he been showing that have caused concern?

At this point, I would try to keep an open mind (hard, I know, trust me!) and if therapy is recommended, please remember that anyone can benefit from therapy! A good therapist is not going to damage your child in anyway, and if they help him become happier all the better!

Yes. Spectrum or not, therapy (when done correctly) never hurts.

In general, I agree ... but it might not always be the case. Certainly wasn't with my DS4.3. He was in EI, initially due to language delays but then he also got OT and PT added on. He went from 10 words at 25 months to speaking in complex sentences 7 months later (which happened within a week). It was not thanks to speech therapy but thanks to his development. The truth is, ST drove him absolutely crazy. To the point where we stopped all therapies once he aged out when he turned 3 and then only got him private OT for his sensory issues. We got lucky and got a great occupational therapist and really enjoyed it. Then we added another weekly PT/OT session because of how bad the sensory issues were earlier this year and while the therapist was very highly respected and knowledgeable, she once again drove him nuts! Problem was, she (just like the old speech therapist) worked with him like with an average child his age but that's not who he is. He's very likely gifted, with a great memory and the kind of child you need to talk to the same way you talk to adults ... you can't talk to him like he's 4, which she did. I pulled the plug on those sessions and he's now as happy as ever. We did some major changes in his diet and we're down to just 2 OT sessions a month and he's doing overall much better. I really wish someone 3 years ago would had suggested we tried to go gluten and casein free rather than suggest all these therapies. But I know what didn't quite work for us, works great for others!
It took me 2.5 years of convincing EI and others to see that something is not right with the 4-year old and we finally got a preliminary diagnosis couple months ago ... PDD-NOS but have further testing ahead of us. I don't actually think it's really PDD-NOS but more likely Asperger's ... but will know more in a few months.

So I am certainly open minded when it comes to the possibility of Autism diagnoses for my younger one. And while he is referred to further testing by EI, it's mainly because he's a big puzzle to everyone that has worked with him ... the therapists as well as the evaluation team. Even my older one's OT said "he acts autistic but I don't believe he is!" ... His Developmental Therapist said she can't really evaluate him because on one hand he won't do for her things a typical 2-3 year old would do but he does things more appropriate for a 6-year old. .. so my worry is that one gets overlooked for the other. It is very likely that he is both, gifted & mildly autistic (be it Asperger's or PDD-NOS) ... I just want to make sure the developmental specialist really looks at all aspects and not just whatever EI guidelines suggest is appropriate for a child his age.

I think you might be misunderstanding giftedness. Poor behavior, not listening to directions, tantruming, etc is not a symptom of being gifted. Now, it might be that he's not be directed in a way that helps him deal with frustration, but those are not signs of being gifted.

I hope the screening helps you figure out where the problem lies and how you can help your son interact more effectively.

I don't think I am misunderstanding giftedness. In a lot of the things he does I can see his body can't keep up with his brain and that's where the frustration and behavior problems seem to come from. He's lacking in fine motor skills (like a lot of kids on this board at an early age) and he gets frustrated over things he wants to do but can't because his hands can't do it. ... like when I first thought he can't do puzzles (he would look at puzzle pieces, look at the puzzle board, try it and then throw across the room in anger) ... he was the happiest kid on earth when he figured out that I can hold the piece in my hand and he'd guide my hand into the right spot.

I have a lot of things he does recorded so I can show them to whomever will be working with him so they know how very differently he acts when he's evaluated and when left alone to do his own activities. He does zero of the obsessive and ritualistic things that my older one does that are so common in Autism. There's no regularity to what he does or doesn't. He just wants to do more challenging things. His developmental therapist couldn't get him to do much the first couple of sessions but once she got him figured out, she started bringing him things to do that are for higher age and he started to cooperate much better because it's more engaging for him and he isn't bored. I hope this makes sense? That's why I think giftedness might play a role in how he acts. He certainly doesn't seem like an average child when he'd started doing crossword puzzles, math addition and reading short sentences at 2.5 years old, not to mention all the other things he does. I know there are such things as splinter skills in Autistic children, but I thought those are directed towards one or two interests but he seems to really "get" things quick in many areas so I don't think that would be it.

but back to my original question ... are there any tests that would be good for a child under 3 who's not very verbal? I don't need exact IQ numbers ... just would like to find out more what's really in him so we know how to go about school and therapies and all that's involved. This might be our only chance to get him tested for another 3 years or so.

My son sounds exactly like yours, we've just done the diagnostic for autism at Lurie, although we started therapy through EI a few months ago (he already qualified because his speech is so delayed).

The appt was just one hour long, and based on that one hour where he didn't want to partake in any of the activities they asked him to do (combination of shyness and not being interested in things that aren't very logical to him ie feeding a teddy bear with a miniature baby bottle), they decided he should receive an autism spectrum diagnosis, which they later switched to PDD in their written report.

Literally nobody who works with my son agrees with their finding in any way, and EI weren't actually able to act on any of the recommendations that came with it anyway (they recommended he get 30 hours of ABA therapy a week, he gets 1.5 hours a week of speech and OT). In fact, at Lurie they told me that EI in IL doesn't even really have any of these therapists, you'll probably have to go through your insurance and possibly drive to WI for one.

My son also started preschool this fall (early start program at our park district) and if anything, this has been the biggest help for him. In the last month he's started saying words I never even thought he knew, it's like a switch finally came on for him.

I've learnt a lot about asynchronous development through my older child, who we finally discovered is HG a year ago. All of my son's therapists agree that he is most likely so busy learning letters and numbers that the other stuff fell to the side, but as his brain grows he is finding space for the other stuff. I also think that it's a big logic thing with him, when he doesn't see the point in something he's just not interested.

At the end of the day, EI isn't interested in what your child can do that is past their age, they're concerned with what goals they aren't meeting. They didn't care that my son could name all the letters on the blocks they gave him to stack, it was that he wouldn't push them around like a choo-choo train like they wanted him to.

I wish you the best of luck with the appt, and hopefully you'll have a more constructive outcome than we did!

It very well could be possible that he is both gifted with ASD, like my little boy.

A couple of things you have said ring alarm bells with me. Including guiding a persons hand to complete a task like a puzzle. I am not sure if you are aware but it is a very typical thing for some autistic children to do.

My little one was similar to yours. He had mastered the world map at 13 months old, doing 300 piece puzzles at 2, amazing mathematical abilities at 2. Taught himself to read like an adult at 3. He has just turned 4 and is amazing.

He has Aspergers and is gifted >99.9

So children can be both. Not being able to follow instructions is a concern. Being refered to have this done says to me that there are clear traits. Given the family history Id be preparing myself for that diagnosis.

I understand why you wouldn't want to give him therapy unless he absolutely needs it, I just want to reassure you that if you do get a diagnosis. Run with it. Give him as much as possible because like my son he will thrive. Being smart will enable him to learn and learn quickly.

Best of luck

thanks everyone! Just to clarify a bit ... the referral from EI ... I am actually the one who started looking for answer (especially with the experience we already had with our older on). So I am the one who came to EI to get him evaluated first and start therapy "just in case" and I went through our pedi to get a referral to Pediatric psychiatrist to look into the possibility of autism but the waiting list is so long that EI offered to get him evaluated through their contracted specialists as that would cut the waiting time in less than half. The good thing is, if i don't like the outcome on Thursday, I still have the referral to Children's hospital ... Lurie as mentioned by kikiandkyle above ... to get futher testing done if I feel we need it. I do see the signs there but I also see the gifted signs and don't want those to be overlooked. He is still speech delayed but so was my older one who now won't keep his mouth shut and speaks like an encyclopedia! ... thus my disagreement with current pdd-nos diagnosis (to me he seems VERY Aspergerish). so I am expecting my younger one following in his big brother's footsteps, meaning his speech will probably really take off in the next 2 months and then Asperger would be a good fit.

Once question to those of you with Asperger / PDD kids ... how much eye contact are you getting from them? DS4 was all about eye contact from the hour he was born until about 1.5 years old and now just can't ever keep his eyes on me. DS2 had great eye contact as a baby too but then it slowly went away around 1 years old and since then it seems to come and go. (one of my concerns why I started looking into this) ... He gives zero eye contact when he lacks interest but gives pretty good eye contact when he's happy and doing what he enjoys. Then he gives me this warm look saying "yeah! I knew you'd understand me eventually!" ... it's hard to explain.

So just wondering how much direct eye contact do you get? With my older one I am convinced it's the autistic part of him when he can't look at me (or anyone else) ... with the younger one, once again I'm not sure. I myself had to learn to FORCE myself to look into people's eyes as I got older. I can't look at people when I need to concentrate. I have to look away into one spot and think (and listen) so there's a chance the younger one is doing just that. But can't know for sure.

It will be nice to finally have some answers (hopefully!) this week but I'm pretty anxious!