Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Certainty among educators

Yes on both counts! I was thinking of the CTY SCAT to begin with. Explore is beyond her skill set right now, but might not be by the end of this year.

The textbook definitely has a lot of what you described. As an example, they were "learning" how to multiply and the book had a confusing example that used blocks to show 17*3. DD came up with 51 almost instantly, but struggled to see how they'd arranged the 51 blocks. They didn't make 3 chunks of 17; they drew rows of ten, five, and two and separated them all in way that they made them look like random rows.

I'm really glad you brought this up. It helps moral-support-wise when someone else points it out. Thanks.


I'll add that I also fear that a good score on an out-of-level test doesn't always count for much. I'm haunted by a post that Bostonian wrote:



It's painful. Really.

That's what I was wondering, as well.

Assessment which becomes more about the tool than what it purports to evaluate is a HUGE problem for us. It's always been the single biggest problem across all subject areas, in fact.

What has school taught my DD?

a) how to write coherently at a level roughly meeting expectations for a bright high schooler, and
b) how to assess the mind of a test-writer so as to attempt to parse the poor communication efforts of others.

That's it, pretty much. While I think that both things are good to learn, I'd obviously have preferred a lot less emphasis on the latter point. It seems grossly unfair to me that to meet the needs of non-NT kids, they have to be BETTER than the adults providing them curriculum and instruction at communication just so that they aren't improperly labeled/categorized. Honestly, that'd be a pretty tall order even for many adults. "Ohhhh, see, and with THIS question, you were supposed to assume that _________________. Not like that other question, where you weren't supposed to know anything at all that you haven't learned from the class textbook, I guess..." Drives me batty.

What happens when she tackles something like Singapore's Challenging Word problems workbook, Val? My DD loved those problems when she was this age. I couldn't get her to willingly work on drill, but she loved the mental challenge of tackling something she could sink her teeth into like that. (That's still more or less true, actually.) Well-written/slightly snarky word problems seem to go over better with GT kids because there is an intrinsic reward in doing them.

Thank you. I've told DD that what happens in math class at school is less important than what she learns at home and that she shouldn't think less of her abilities because of the slow pace of the group she's in. She's starting to accept that slowing down isn't a sign of weakness, and is starting to succeed consistently on the more complex basic algebra problems that she's doing with me. I'm happy about that.

Val, I haven't had time to read all the responses, but fwiw I'd probably do a four-pronged approach in collecting data to show your dd's true level of abilty: I'd start with a test trial of ALEKS (which used to be no charge for a few weeks) and have her do the assessments for the end of her current grade level and 1-2 (up to whatever) grade levels higher and keep a copy of the reports. The upside to the ALEKS assessment is that it's tied to curriculum standards by state - so you can show exactly where your dd is at relative to your local grade level expectations.

I'd also have your dd take EXPLORE (or other talent search test depending on what's available where you live) - that will give you an above-grade-level assessment and a percentile reporting relative to grade level.

I'd have her work through the types of word problems at home that her teacher seems so concerned about so that you can take that as proof she is capable of doing them.

And lastly, I'd let her keep working after school on whatever math problems or program she enjoys and take copies of that work in as proof of her abilities as well as her motivation.

polarbear

Groan. Oh, you're preaching to the choir. This is homework with my DD every night. "It's 51! I don't understand this other stuff." "You have to draw all these blocks, I guess. In...rows of tens and fives? Looks like it. Then you add the twos or something? No, the ones." "I hate this, mama."

Speaking of word problems, I will say that DD also does a set of enrichment word problems from another curriculum every week and has no problem with them. What's more, she enjoys them and flies through them. These are more along the line of logic problem/brain teaser math problems. They appear to actually have been $%^#@#$@!!! proofread/tested by humans as well.

Afraid of Your Child's Math Textbook? You Should Be.

http://open.salon.com/blog/annie_ke..._your_childs_math_textbook_you_should_be

Since my son is mentioned above, here is an update. In the summer, I informed the school principal of the score by email, and my wife suggested leaving the ball in their court. They have not made any modifications. If my son were to accelerate, taking Algebra I this year (a skip from 5th grade to 7th grade math) would be plausible. A middle school math teacher posts the homework assignments (problem numbers from the textbook) online. Students are expected to do about 40 problems daily, of a routine nature. (When 40 problems a day are assigned, you know they cannot be too challenging. I looked up the problems online to confirm this.) My son does not need that much drill, so "sitting on his head" nightly to force him to do such work seems pointless. He is better off using the AOPS (or some other challenging) textbook and/or taking an AOPS course, or he may take Intermediate Algebra through EPGY. He has exhausted the Open Enrollment math courses, so now cost is a factor. He is learning little in 5th grade Everyday Math, but at least the curriculum is not making serious demands on his time at home.

Yes, it came up with him, too. They were rigid about the critical need to do all of second grade math as prescribed in the Everyday Math textbook. To the school's credit, they offered him a grade skip about four months later, but they still wanted him to do the 3rd grade math workbook on his own. At the final conference of the year, the teacher told me that "he might even be able to go past that!" He had almost finished 5th grade math with me at that point.

A similar conceptual block happened with science in fourth grade. Again, the teacher thought that it was simply not right to let a kid do 5th grade science if he hadn't done all of 4th grade science. She didn't seem to see that it was the same course, except with bigger words and more detail in the 5th grade course.

We finally got past it with a second grade skip into a small school run by a gifted guy. Sorry to say the school was acquired and the new owner changed it completely. So he's homeschooling now.

The blog post at Ultramarina's link was disturbing, not too surprising ( ), and clarifying. It explains a lot about the geometry book I've complained about, the weird homework my DD has been bringing home, and a lot of other things. I swear, things would be pretty bad for us without the web and the online booksellers.

I believe that my daughter's teachers (and most other teachers/schools) really do want to help kids. But there's a lot of evidence indicating that many or most of them don't have the mathematical background required for making proper evaluations of the the flashy textbooks that get pushed by the big publishers. And yet that certainty comes in here: even in that blog post, the author emphasized that the books should be written by educators. She didn't really mention subject experts with graduate degrees in mathematics. This is almost as depressing.

I don't have any words of wisdom for you other than to just keep fighting.

But, I totally sympathize as we've been in this same situation with our DD11 several times, despite multiple sources of above-level testing. In our case it was a teacher who apprently thought their curriculum was so superior to others that the fact that DD knew so much didn't matter because she had never learned using their curriculum and would benefit from repeating all the material she already knew through their curriculum. You would think that when teacher comes across a child who loves to learn, loves a particular subject, is great at that subject, and is asking to learn more, that the teacher would be so excited about getting to nurture that student and maybe even mentor them. But, no. IME, they just come up with a million excuses why they couldn't possibly be ready for more challenging work.

I'd write more but it just makes me want to scream thinking about the excuses from teachers that we've faced over and over.

Recently, we insisted that our DD at least be given the chance to try the Algebra I class, with the caveat that she could be moved back if she was struggling (which we knew she wouldn't), and her clear success in the class is the only thing that's keeping the teacher from expressing her doubts (She still seems doubtful, nonetheless, that an 11 year old can do Algebra!)

It seems to me that they need both types working together on textbooks. You need someone who can say whether the material is being presented appropriately in terms of kids' developmental levels, but, obviously, you also need to make sure that the math is right and the theoretical background is strong.

I'd like to point out that while our kids are being served poorly by these books, it's even worse for struggling students. A really badly written question can transform even a good math student into one who looks bad on paper some of the time, unless/until they develop the "Hmm, what they really meant was..." skills HowlerKarma was talking about. Kids who are having more difficulty are likely to mess those up every time. That clarity is SO incredibly important.