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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3 |
So, Bostonian, have you told him that those differences have dramatically lessened over the past 20 years? As I said, I have not discussed the topic with him. When he noted the sex difference in average scores, I just pointed out that there was considerable overlap in the two distributions.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 741
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 741 |
What got my DD9 interested in Lego was watching the Feminist Frequency videos that discussed the STEM skills that playing with Lego develops, and how Lego's marketing had changed over time to position Lego as "not for girls." The idea that The Man was keeping her down really lit a fire under her.
Ditto for articles explaining how girls are societally conditioned to give up / assume they aren't smart enough, and boys are conditioned to work harder.
She had camp at the Air & Space Museum this summer, and the K-3rd grade group was about evenly split between boys and girls. She was in the 4th-6th group, which did some activities with the 7th-12th group, and there was at least one week where there was only one other girl in both older groups combined. What made the difference there was having a few weeks where there were at least 2 other girls in her age group, and having one of the adult woman coordinators take DD under her wing after DD had an anxiety attack right before camp.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3 |
Ditto for articles explaining how girls are societally conditioned to give up / assume they aren't smart enough, and boys are conditioned to work harder. If such conditioning were widespread and effective, you would not expect to see a much higher percentage of females than males getting bachelor's degrees, as is currently the case in the U.S.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3 |
Right, I had the second source in mind, since it refers to current degree attainment.
"To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 741
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Ditto for articles explaining how girls are societally conditioned to give up / assume they aren't smart enough, and boys are conditioned to work harder. If such conditioning were widespread and effective, you would not expect to see a much higher percentage of females than males getting bachelor's degrees, as is currently the case in the U.S. No, you'd expect to see more girls getting degrees in "easy" fields, and more boys getting degrees in "hard" fields. "Give up" doesn't mean "drop out of school." It means, "You got a 37 on your first physics-for-engineering-majors exam, so decided to major in [some non-science field] instead." For example, http://www.econ.uconn.edu/seminars/20082009/papers/zafar08.pdfEnjoying working at the jobs and learning more about things that interest me were the two most important reasons for choosing a major for both males and females. However, females, on average assign higher weights to this reason (the gender difference is significant). For males, the third most important stated reason for choosing a major is getting a high-paying job. Conversely, doing well in the coursework is the third most important reason for females. Also mentioned in that study is the belief (held by both men and women) that women are treated most-worst compared to how men are treated in STEM fields. IMHO, Engineer Barbie and "oops, that's my lipstick not a test tube" biologist just exacerbate that belief - girls conclude that everyone in the lab will assume they're like that, and treat them accordingly.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,641 Likes: 3
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The abstract of the paper you cite refutes the idea that sex differences in choosing STEM careers are due to girls being conditioned to assume they are not smart enough:
"Gender differences in beliefs about academic ability explain a small and insignificant part of the gap; this allows me to rule out females being low in self-confidence as a possible explanation for their under-representation in the sciences. Conversely, most of the gender gap is due to differences in beliefs about enjoying coursework, and preferences."
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
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For some strange reason, this thread inspired me to revisit Gaston's song with my now teenaged daughter. A close friend and I used to sing show tunes in the lab. Gaston (from Beauty and the Beast) was a perennial favorite. Gilbert and Sullivan were also particularly fertile territory. Well, and Tom Lehrer. Which sort of goes without saying, really. I never applied any lipstick at work, so it really wasn't a problem mixing that up with the P-32 pig or the high-speed centrifuge tubes. Anyone for a chorus of "Nitrile is a Girl's Best Friend?"
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,897
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Joined: Jun 2008
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"While the defining characteristics of femininity are not universally identical, some patterns exist. Gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, caring, sweetness, compassion, tolerance, nurturance, deference, and succorance are behaviors generally considered feminine." I think I vomited in my mouth a little. Lol, yeah, I definitely don't get the 'deference' bit, but most of the other stuff doesn't sound bad for any sort of human to exhibit, female or male.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 423
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Lol, yeah, I definitely don't get the 'deference' bit, but most of the other stuff doesn't sound bad for any sort of human to exhibit, female or male. Deference likely being a reference throughout history and influenced by Biblical directive, not necessarily modern day typical practice.
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