Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Do you list DYS on a college application?

And maybe that is where the difference is in our opinions. In a million years it would not hurt you to put Davidson on an MIT or Caltech application. Those are schools that absolutely recognize the value of a high IQ (as do most of the top 150 or so colleges in the US, I believe). You can teach people a lot of stuff, but it is really hard to teach "IQ". But if my kid were to apply to say, Winona State (apologies to any graduates out there :)), a small, regional school in our state university system, you are right that admissions person would never have heard of Davidson, and might be put off a Mensa reference.

I actually saw a reference to Davidson in a book I read a couple of years ago about getting kids into top colleges. It was talking about how to productively spend your summers to prepare for college apps, and THINK was listed in the book. But it had an asterisk that basically said it is so darned hard to get into because of the scores required that most students shouldn't bother, but if you can do it to go for it. Now again, that is THINK, not DYS. Sorry, can't recall the name of the book.

Just as an aside, how is a high test score (eg, high ACT score, which my D just pulled off -- a 35 out of 36 with NO prep for that test) any different to an admissions counselor than a high IQ? Both are a snapshot in time, a one day test. They show something about your intellectual chops compared to the rest of the applicant pool, and colleges clearly consider that invaluable information (otherwise test scores would not be required!) I actually still keep a scholarship reference on my resume from college (25 years ago) for an ACT score in the top 100 for my state, and I know that employers notice and remember it. I don't know why we should treat an indication of a high IQ as shameful. Now... I wouldn't put the actual IQ on the application. That would be considered wierd.

Maybe

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10557.aspx
What High Schools Don’t Tell You (And other parents don’t want you to know)
by Wissner-Gross, E.


Yes, but why? Why is it different from listing an ACT or SAT score? (I agree with your post but am just musing.)

Because the two evaluation tools measure different things, perhaps?

Or because one purports to measure achievement and is perceived as gameable and achievable through competitive efforts, whereas the other isn't. And thus IQ is seen as something like height which would never be used as a selection criteria...

Alternatively, I know the word on the street when I was a kid was to never tell a child their IQ as it could damage them for life. So, maybe some of that shhhh.... trickles into the same meme space as the jolly guy in the red suit.

I wrote a rather long response about the changes in the college application process over the past 30 years, and I might post that later, but I think I can relate this to another area of interest to my kids - sports.

My eldest is going into her senior year in HS, and she thinks she might want to play DIII softball. Every college has a recruiting form to fill out for sports, with both sports info and academic info. The form asks for time from Home to 1st. Say your kid is really speedy (and it seems that most of the really speedy kids are born that way, not made through practice). So you put down 2.7 seconds for your time. That's great, but your batting average is only .100 and you make a ton of errors in the field.

I think for the folks that say don't put down DYS (or IQ), they mean that listing something that you are born with (IQ or speed) does not in and of itself add to your application. Maybe if that ballplayer had a batting average of .450 because she can put down a great bunt and use her speed to get on base, that means something. Maybe if you did something with DYS - THINK or used help from DYS to improve programs at your school - then you should list it.

My parents told me my IQ and defined it as mental age divided by chronological age. Once I had a discussion with a guidance counselor where he told me that students who are X years old are not allowed to do Y. I replied that my mental age was X', based on my IQ. He was taken aback and not persuaded. I am still glad my parents told me my IQ.

NotSoGifted, yep. Running from home to first is an objective measure of actual athletic performance in a way that is directly applicable to winning games. DYS status is far from a reliable predictive measure of actual academic performance in college.

Even if it were true that IQ scores were important to know for college entry purposes, DYS admittees are all over the map in terms of their specific DYS admission criteria. What does it really help an admissions officer to know that a person, at age 5 or above, scored 145+ on one or more subtests from a range of tests, and/or submitted a freeform portfolio to convince Davidson that they were working years ahead, many years before applying to college? If someone's still ahead by college, that will be amply and specifically shown by other information.

So, a problem with DYS is that it doesn't necessarily function as a good proxy for your innate intellectual power.

Maybe as potential.... but that isn't necessarily the same thing as "probability of stellar success at Elite U."

Correct, even at age 5, when Davidson begins to cast its intentionally wide net to find the ones it wants to find. What might be much more relevant is actual achievements showing high real-world ability, for example if a music prodigy had composed his first symphony at age 4 or something. There's not really a need for more standardized test scores or evidence of them-- there are already some well-accepted types used for college entry.