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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,428
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No need to tell me how to find more recent papers, Bostonian.  I do this all day long. There is a vast wealth of research on this subject. The issues is going to be finding some good meta-analyses that are coming from people without an axe to grind (of any sort). For instance, the "more recent review" you linked to in the previous thread is not a meta-analysis, nor even a study. It's clearly an opinion piece. It's interesting reading, but I suspect it was heavily cherry-picked.
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Joined: Feb 2012
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You know, I've been thinking that what I have *not* seen (or at least don't remember seeing) is a study/discussion in which actual gifted (and hopefully successful) adults say what was best and worst about their K-12 education. This might end up being just a collection of anecdotes, and since the educational system has changed a lot over the past few decades it might not be entirely applicable to the current systems, but I think it would be interesting at least. I've heard stories, but usually just about one person at a time.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,299 Likes: 2
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For instance, the "more recent review" you linked to in the previous thread is not a meta-analysis, nor even a study. It's clearly an opinion piece. It's interesting reading, but I suspect it was heavily cherry-picked. The Kulik paper at the beginning of the old thread and the Benbow article linked to yesterday both had 13 pages of references. The Kulik paper summarizes results of a lot of previous studies. Several research groups have carried out meta-analyses on grouping findings.
Among the most comprehensive analyses are those carried out by Robert Slavin at Johns Hopkins University and those conducted by my research group at the University of Michigan. These meta-analyses show that different grouping programs produce different effects. Some programs have little or no effect on students, other programs have moderate effects, and still other programs have large effects. The key distinction is among (a) programs in which all ability groups follow the same curriculum; (b) programs in which all groups follow curricula adjusted to their ability; and (c) programs that make curricular and other adjustments for the special needs of highly talented learners. It seems odd to call them opinion pieces when they have so many references to support author claims, as well as so many summaries of other studies. I remember going down this road with you in the thread about TJ High School. You kept asking for peer-reviewed studies that supported links between better nutrition and better performance in school. Nothing I provided was good enough for you, yet you didn't provide any alternatives. I'm wondering what your motivation was at this point, and what you're looking for. I'm sure you're not asking us to find or analyze papers for you.  Maybe you should provide some papers and an analysis.
Last edited by Val; 08/24/12 08:26 AM. Reason: Clarity
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Joined: Feb 2010
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I'd like to make a comment based on this quote from the article:
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She was so bored that she no longer wanted to go to school. So her mother, Lisa Clemans-Cope, spoke to Bradley Hills about providing more challenging work. She was told that her advanced learner would get it. But “what we saw was so sparse and totally inadequate,” she says.
Finally, Clemans-Cope signed up Eleanor for an entrance exam for the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth, Johns Hopkins University’s competitive program for students in grades two through eight with exceptional math and verbal reasoning skills.
Eleanor passed easily, but her parents found the courses too expensive. She now attends weekly math sessions at a private after-school academic enrichment program with her best friend and several neighborhood kids. It costs her parents about $100 a month.
“You have to do something if your kid is not learning,” Clemans-Cope says. “We cannot sit and do nothing while [the school system works] things out.”
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Schools can make sure no one gets ahead in school (although this is wrong), but they end up pushing the ability-grouped, advanced classes in math and other subjects into the private realm. Lower-income and minority students will be under-represented in gifted programs and in "top track" classes, because there is an achievement gap, but the disparity may be even larger in private classes, because parents must have the means, the background knowledge, and the desire to seek them out. We know what AMC, AOPS, CTY, EPGY, SET etc. stand for. I think most of the general public do not.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Schools can make sure no one gets ahead in school (although this is wrong), but they end up pushing the ability-grouped, advanced classes in math and other subjects into the private realm. Lower-income and minority students will be under-represented in gifted programs and in "top track" classes, because there is an achievement gap, but the disparity may be even larger in private classes, because parents must have the means, the background knowledge, and the desire to seek them out. Exactly. We tried a free charter school last year, and it didn't have a lot to offer a HG+ kid. We can afford to homeschool via CTY and other private options, so we are. IMO, the public schools should be providing better opportunities to lower income gifted students (if they did, the higher income people might stick around).
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Val, that very thing is happening through the magnet program at the Title 1 school our son attends. The K-2 aspect is open to any student, and the school is taking lessons learned through the program and carrying them into the non-magnet classrooms. Though there are a couple of public HG+ options in the city, we are hoping the school can keep up as I think they have a great model. PDF about the program: http://www.cms.k12.nc.us/mediaroom/...mersion%20and%20Talent%20Development.pdf
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
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Schools can make sure no one gets ahead in school (although this is wrong), but they end up pushing the ability-grouped, advanced classes in math and other subjects into the private realm. Lower-income and minority students will be under-represented in gifted programs and in "top track" classes, because there is an achievement gap, but the disparity may be even larger in private classes, because parents must have the means, the background knowledge, and the desire to seek them out. Exactly. We tried a free charter school last year, and it didn't have a lot to offer a HG+ kid. We can afford to homeschool via CTY and other private options, so we are. IMO, the public schools should be providing better opportunities to lower income gifted students (if they did, the higher income people might stick around). I think that higher income people tend to try to avoid lower income people, just on general principle. In the minds of many better off people, poor people = crime and/or lack of appropriate culture. Either that or poor people = ability for better off people to provide charity to the unfortunate.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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I think that higher income people tend to try to avoid lower income people, just on general principle.
In the minds of many better off people, poor people = crime and/or lack of appropriate culture.
Either that or poor people = ability for better off people to provide charity to the unfortunate. I can say lots of non-PC things too, but I don't see how this advances this discussion.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
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I think that higher income people tend to try to avoid lower income people, just on general principle.
In the minds of many better off people, poor people = crime and/or lack of appropriate culture.
Either that or poor people = ability for better off people to provide charity to the unfortunate. I can say lots of non-PC things too, but I don't see how this advances this discussion. I take it that you don't have to play the school redistricting game on an annual basis.
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