Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy other parents and envy/jealousy

This doesn't stop just because your child leaves elementary school.

::sigh:: If only.

If you have a child (like mine) who is a social chameleon (also an area of PG, quite frankly), then anyone who meets her in only ONE venue is likely to believe that what they see of her is what she IS.

Ergo, when they learn that my 13yo is a highly successful (top 0.5% of her class) high school student, they assume that we must be:

a) making it up (ohhhhh... but she's homeschooled, so... Uhhhh, no. She's NOT homeschooled.),

b) somehow gaming the system to make her appear smarter than she is (? yeah, I don't get this one, either),

c) whipping her through crushing amounts of work (this also mystifies me, since I doubt that it's even technically possible at this level),
or

d) keeping her enrolled in some third-world equivalent of 'actual' high school (Really? You might try this on for size and see what YOU think of it... lots of families leave because it is MORE work than a B&M school).


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The problem is that they seldom keep such thoughts to themselves. There is a profoundly judgmental quality to this-- that is, the notion that we are being "abusive" to our child by... well, hothousing, I suppose. Underlying this, naturally, is this need that other parents seem to have to cut my child down to size so that-- well, perhaps so that their own kids don't seem 'inferior' to them by comparison.

That one boggles my mind-- do they also nudge the incredibly gifted athlete's parents after a huge win and say "Oh, but s/he's got all that private instruction. Otherwise s/he'd be pretty typical."

Do they murmur to the young musician's parents; "I'm sure that s/he would be much like the other kids if you allowed him/her to just have other interests."

I don't know-- maybe they do actually behave that way.

It sure is irksome, though. It bothers my DD, too. What those parents fail to appreciate is that she is the real deal, and also has the exceptional perceptions of a much older person. Most 13yo's might not notice if an adult were talking to their parents about them. DD notices and fully understands the underlying implications in these statements.

It undermines her self-confidence terribly.

Why on earth would another parent say "Oh, right-- but she's really just a middle-schooler," when my child is nearing the end of her high school career?? Do they think that we have forgotten that she's 13?

I suppose on the asynchrony front, such nonsense is something of a back-handed compliment. It does indicate that DD is comfortable being exactly who and what she is, after all. She can be multiple ages in different peer groups.

How do other parents handle this kind of thing with sensitive teens, though? I don't like how this sometimes leads DD to question her legitimacy intellectually.

I totally get it. I am not naturally an assertive person, and my first instinct is to stop demanding that my son get a decent education every time someone implies that I'm making it up, or forcing him into extra study that he doesn't want. (For the record, he told me the other day that he doesn't know much about history, so he wants a history book for his birthday). It's really difficult to keep advocating for your child in these circumstances. Even family does this. My own mother berated me for demanding a challenge for him, since apparently good grades are the only thing that is important. A friend of mine has a son who appears to be quite bright, but has some minor speech issues. When I mentioned how frustrated I was that DS was not getting the math instruction he needed (they stuck him on a computer with some advanced math, and had him figure it out on his own), she told me that I should just be happy that my son is doing well, and as the mother of a child who had a "real" problem, she thought I should just shut up about it.
The way DS is treated is even worse. His school librarian allowed him to only choose books within a year of his grade level. When I sent a note asking that he be allowed to read more advanced books, he was politely told that he wouldn't be able to understand the other books, and perhaps he should explain that to his mother. Really? How do you tell a child who WANTS to challenge himself that he is not capable of doing so?!? Last year when I started sending a notebook of extra work to school with him so he didn't spend 3-4 hours of the day drawing pictures, his teacher told him to put it away because it was "distracting" to the other students. (If your child is distracted by a spiral notebook and a pencil, he or she should be medicated, in my opinion). Poor DS is left feeling like it's a negative thing that he enjoys learning.
It's frustrating, I know. I wish I knew what to do about it. For now, thought, I've learned to save all brags to this board, and try to teach DS that he should be proud of his accomplishments without necessarily getting the credit he deserves from anyone outside our own home.

Yeah, I expect it in response to brags. This is more about people who are-- unsolicited-- asking questions, and then challenging the legitimacy of the answers.


It's the "what grade are you in?/how old are you?" conversation, basically.

Too many parents consider their children as their own status symbols. "See, I'm totally awesome, because I made THAT!" So if you say something that indicates your child is doing better than theirs in some way, they perceive it as an overt statement that you're better than them (because they assume you do the same over-identifying with your child that they do). This leads them to a defensive posture, as they attempt to protect their own silly insecurities.

So, I'd explain this to my own teenager, and my message would be, "Don't let that parent's insecurities feed your own."

Well, the issue could be a concern about the *future*.

If you produce average kids, and you are above average, then your future is at risk and you will suffer relative decline, possibly resulting in you falling into the ranks of the masses, with your life ending in defeat and despair.

Whereas, if you have wonderful, brilliant, shiny children, there is a good chance that your star will rise and you will spend your sunset days basking in the triumph of your progeny.

I just watch what I say and who I say it to. (Mind you, my kids aren't teens yet so maybe the dynamic will change). I'm lucky as well in that I have friends with gifted kids, so I have people I can talk to.

The issue that I have is people not understanding their emotional intensities (but that's a whole other thread ;)) It's easy to not talk about the gifted math program that starts for DD9 in September, but when she overreacts to a friend's comment or gets overly competitive or riled up and loses her social graces, that's more of a challenge at this point. People just think she's a brat. sigh.

Anyway, I just choose who I talk to very carefully. The same goes for another giftie Mom friend of mine. And you're right - people treat athletically, musically and artistically talented kids much differently than they do intellectually advanced kids.

I've mulled over what sociological/anthropological reason(s) could explain it (like, way back in time, the jocks were the food catchers, the artists were the cave painters, the musical ones made people happy, but the smart ones were misunderstood and thought to be crazy? Dunno). Also when people see art and sport or hear music, they think "I could do that if I practiced" but when they see evidence of higher intellect it makes them feel badly about whatever talents they may possess so they get defensive.

Whatever. sigh.

Parents take far too much credit for their child's achievements (and also failures). I thought I was the best potty-training parent on the planet until I tried with my daughter...it became clear to me that my ds trained himself.

A little tangential, but on the complaining side of giftedness, I see it this way: I was infertile for many years and bristled at pregnant women's morning sickness tales or got downright angry at parents' flippant remarks about their kids. They had every right to complain (parenting is exhausting)...but I didn't want them to complain to me.

I imagine it could be seen the same way between a gifted child vs one with learning difficulties. Even if we're dealing with 2e...some parents may still not be able to empathize with our hardships.

LOL. Yes, I think that is just it. It's the vicarious impulse in parents to over-identify, or at least assume that anyone who might be overstating their kid's ability is doing so. We may be extra sensitive to this because of the frequent (over the years) accusations of helicopter parenting borne of our need to be involved to manage DD's (life-threatening) medical issues.

It's rhetoric which stops just short of;

"Huh. Well, I've seen your kid. Your kid doesn't seem like such a freak to me."

Gee--

Thanks??

If I'm honest, I've actually heard that statement from some people over the years-- and I'm less offended by that one, honestly stated, than I am about the sort of sly "because she's not that weird, it must be YOU, not her" (in spite of any evidence to the contrary). The honest statement is a compliment, if an awkward one to say to most parents. That one is related to how 'well-adjusted' our kids are. THAT is a statement that I will take credit for, because I do feel that we've had a lot to do with that one. It's the 'you're making it up somehow' vibe that rankles.


I'm kind of wondering-- at what point does this nonsense stop? DOES it stop??

That is, will my DD as a college graduate still be hearing "Oh, but you're really just a high school kid," from some insecure person?? "Oh, but you really just a college kid..."


Sometimes I just want to get her a teeshirt that says "I'm probably smarter than you, but I'm also good at not making YOU feel awkward. If it doesn't bother ME, why should it bother YOU??"

It's very peculiar that some PG kiddos get dismissed for their very ability to blend in and not make waves with peers. To meet unstated and nuanced expectations just about perfectly, basically, means that you're viewed as "can't possibly be unusual in any way."

I keep telling DD that someday that ability is going to matter even more than her raw IQ will. That is, the ability to put others at ease and effortlessly, graciously interact with them at whatever level they happen to be at is an incredible PG-level gift, too. Even if it does lead some of them to interpret that as her not actually being intelligent.

Which is mostly a problem for her dad and I, I suppose. It makes us indignant for her as often as it makes her doubt whether she's really all that different. It's not quite dumbing-down, but when it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in the hands of another adult, then it is obviously a problem. They see what they expect to see, basically. She is also a great one for internalizing the judgments of other adults into her self-image. So we do worry about that.

She doesn't spend a lot of time with same-age peers, so her frame of reference is somewhat limited. The general scenario is that she enjoys the novelty of kids her own age. For a while, that is. Then it gets old because they tend to like HER a lot more than she likes them in large doses.

Am I wrong to consider statements like "Oh, yeah-- my ________ could probably have skipped a grade or two, too, in elementary school" as kind of toxic?

(And not a little disingenuous, by the way... while it might be true in one subject for some kids, it's rarely true that those kids could be grade-skipped twice and thrive longterm.)

I think that things like that, said about obviously average, or even 'bright' kids... in front of my DD... are pretty much intended to diminish her self-image.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the unspoken part of the statement isn't "So YOU aren't so special" but instead it is "but WE understood that it would be harmful to accelerate OUR precious children...."

Maybe we as her parents are the targets? I honestly don't think this is about us feeling defensive or threatened. We dislike adults who 'call out' her age/grade in positive ways, too. It always feels inappropriate to us, regardless of whether it's "ohh, you must be some kind of GENIUS!!" or if it's the kind of thing I've been referring to here of, "She doesn't seem so smart to me."


Added to this context is the fact that DD, whose academic peers are Ivy-bound 16-17yo's, often compares herself to those peers and thinks that she's "nothing special" by virtue of being 'omnibus' gifted rather than having an area of profound ability with everything else being more moderately exceptional and acting as a foil to highlight the singularity. Multipotentiality strikes again, basically.

That is, she isn't a "mathy" or "scienc-ey" or "geeky" or "wordy" kid. She's more-or-less average/normative against any of THOSE kids. It's a weird area of distorted perception for her, honestly. She doesn't seem to grasp that her Mathy friends don't have her ability in English and debate, and that her Writer-friends aren't also in the math track that she is. Oh, and that they're all a couple of years older than she is to start with, and most of them are really working at it.

So we worry considerably about any whiff of toxic 'you should doubt yourself a little more' verbiage from other adults.

CCN...

Why I like this board : I was also pondering the etiology of this "if I'm smart then I'm better than you" assumption. I'm sure there is a huge historical component with education being only for the "elite upper class". Here's another stab:

Intellectual giftedness is much more overarching than specific "skill" giftedness. People often attribute skill giftedness with an admirable work-ethic, as if there was no genetic "headstart". But people often see I.giftedness with the same contempt as fashion models: "They didn't DO anything special. They were just born that way.
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