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    Joined: Jul 2011
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    I decided about two weeks ago to attempt to teach DD how a few words are spelled... she has "baby" and "hi" down right now. (She recognizes them when printed on a piece of paper or when we spell them out with her wooden toy letters.) I think we could keep going and just show her all her favorite words and she'll pick them up. She started learning her alphabet around.. 15? months and then started noticing all the letters in books and would pick them off the page. So I thought we could take the next step.

    I've read comments on here about "hothousing" and I'm slightly worried about that... but I feel I'm following the child here. She likes to bring me flashcards and have me show her the word and the picture together. She learned the alphabet through signing DVDs and by bringing me the wooden letters I bought for her.

    I want to hear your thoughts on teaching reading and what you think of the phonics vs whole language debate. I'm googling away, of course, but I want to hear what you've experienced with your kids.

    The situation is a bit odd for me, because DD is a mostly non-verbal hearing 18 month old who knows the alphabet and can recognize two words so far... but uses her 300+ ASL signs to communicate with us. So I kind of have to teach her with the signs she knows in mind.

    Last edited by islandofapples; 06/09/12 07:06 PM.
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    Mommy Teach me to Read by Barbara Curtis.

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    I think that every kind of communication is good...including reading and writting. Take a look at the Handwriting without Tears preschool to show how they teach with 'Mat Man' to see if it resonates with you. I don't know anything about Phonics v Whole word but can you do both? We did phonics by singing the Whinnie the Poo song. First DH and it would sing it regualr. And let DS shout 'Poo' after we would pause after THE. The when we all got bored, we would sing the tune substituting La La s(like the 3 singing pigs in Boyton). And DS would sing LOO at that part of the song. You could hold up the L letter block to match and make it dance around. Then we would switch to M and DS would say Moo. Etc on and on. We had no idea what we were doing we just couldn't help ourselves from having fun. About 10 years later we tried singing one song to the tune of a different one...music is big at our house.


    You are trying to monitor your own motivations and follow her lead so that's good. It is always hard to know for sure. I just finished a book, 'Dibs in search of self' about a PG 5 year old in 1960 who was misdiagnosed as ED and had a hothousing Mom. The book plays it that the mom was some kind of monster but I 'read into' the book that her academic hothousing saved the kid. I think she was PG and intense and unable to relax and be present but clearly loved her kid and was doing the best she could. I'm not sure if I actually recommend. The book or not as it starts out heartbreakingly sad.

    Best Wishes
    Grinity


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    Psychological Science in the Public Interest (a peer-reviewed journal of the Association for Psychological Science) published a review of phonics vs. whole language. Here is the money quote:
    Quote
    Two inescapable conclusions emerge: (a) Mastering the alphabetic principle (that written symbols are associated with phonemes) is essential to becoming proficient in the skill of reading, and (b) methods that teach this principle directly are more effective than those that do not. Using whole-language activities to supplement phonics instruction does help make reading fun and meaningful for children, but ultimately, phonics instruction is critically important because it helps beginning reders understand the alphabetic principle and learn new words.

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    I am in the same boat. I am trying to keep a good balance between teaching and playing. My first son DS4.5 was a self driven learner. I would sit with him from the age of a few months and read, but later he would also sit by himself and do academic activities. I did teach him phonics and spelled out words, but nothing extravagant. He pretty much figured out how to read by himself. He would also sit by himself and make words, trace numbers and letters etc. To this day he is a kid that gets up in the morning and writes and does math in his room. All self motivated.

    So then there is DS2.5....a bit of a different story. Did the same thing with him although once he hit 12 months and started to walk it was hard to get him to sit still so I tried the best I could to read to him. After the novelty of walking wore off he got obsessed with me reading to him. He also learned upper/lower case alphabet before he was 22 months and he leaned the letter sounds in about 5 days, before the age of 2. The difference is, he was/is NOT self motivated. I had to sit with him and he LOVED it but wouldn't play with letters/numbers by himself like DS4.5.
    Now he is reading a few words and can sound out words when looking at them or when I ask him what letters are in a word. But again, I am right there working with him.

    Am I "hothousing"...is working with your child with the purpose of teaching them "hothousing"? He is extremely interested when we work and doesn't want to stop. He loves "Reading Eggs" and "Starfall". But it is wrong to work with him when it seems he has not much interest doing it independently?

    As far as phonics vs. whole language, I am doing both. I think a combination of the two is best. I do feel DS4.5 knew phonics but he never went through the stage of sounding out words as he read. He just read. So I am assuming he caught on to just looking at the words, knowing.

    Thanks for bringing up this topic. I have been wondering about this issue as well.

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    The question of just what constitutes hothousing is an interesting one. The term itself of course comes from horticulture, and in general one wouldn't think there was anything wrong with nurturing a child's mental capacities any more than carefully attempting to grow a prize rose in a weather controlled, high-nutrition environment.

    However, it is almost exclusively used in a negative sense. Here's a sample:
    http://giftedkids.about.com/od/glossary/g/hothouse.htm

    Looking at that page in particular, the negative sides to hothousing are the pushing and the idea that the child is forced to learn at such an early age that the learning process does harm in some way.

    My opinion on the latter claim, that learning certain concepts earlier than normal does harm, is that it's complete horsehockey. I often see such things repeated by people who advocate late learning, such as Waldorf schooling or followers of the Moores; here's a sample:
    http://www.excellenceineducation.com/better_late_than_early.php

    I was interested enough to read up on this, and don't see any compelling support for the idea either that academics should actually be delayed more than they usually are in developed countries today, or that accelerating further does any harm in and of itself.

    But.

    Of course one can harm a child by pushing them. The harm wouldn't come as some sort of cognitive deficit-- horsehockey-- but as an aversion or opposition to learning, or simply less joy in learning, which could be just as damaging. I think children deserve to have a great deal of freedom and should be as happy as possible in their early years. So while that doesn't rule out early academics, it does mean to me that one should be exquisitely sensitive to a child's desires and back off instantly whenever necessary, and that it's far more appropriate when a child actually indicates interest in the first place.

    So my longwinded answer is that it seems to fit a common-sense definition of hothousing to teach a child to read early, do early math work, etc. as an attempt to increase a child's abilities long-term; one is then raising a child as one would culture a flower, by attempting to provide an environment optimal for growth in a certain way. One might take any early hint of growth in a certain area as justification for this and point to it as "child led"-- for instance, most children naturally begin to count to some degree in early years, but most children are not then put through a math prorgram because of it. My opinion on the extent to which a particular situation involved parental pushing more than I'd personally think best would be very much based on the circumstances, but unless the child seemed unhappy I would never bring it up in any way.

    In fact, the only times I would really think that a child was hothoused in the negative sens of the word-- parental pushing with possible harm to the child-- would be if the child were visibly unhappy, or if the child were really over-scheduled, i.e. always doing things the parent wanted with little or no free time. A child can of course spend her time in a number of happy ways, including learning to read, and may choose this; then it can't be hothousing.

    I think a lot of parents here have had to deal with the hothousing meme, either explicitly or implicitly stated. Other parents can get very passive aggressive when they realize that their children are far behind another child in some way; their options at this point include accepting the situation, justifications for differences based on the children's interest, justifications based on parental choices in the best interests of the children who are behind, etc. Nobody likes to think they've failed their children. And of course schools can participate in this game too-- a common buzzword for school admins and teachers seems to be that children have been "worked with" or "provided many opportunities" by their parents. It might seem insulting, but I wouldn't worry about any of it as long as your child is happy and carefree.


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    The thing that all the "it's perfectly fine if your child doesn't read till 10" people seem to forget about is that there are reams of evidence that in the aggregate, children who are not reading well by third grade do not catch up, and that they then are at MUCH higher risk of dropping out, even if they are not disadvantaged in other ways. I'm sure there are many exceptions to this rule, and little anecdotes are all well and good, but in a broad sense, yes, there is reason to be concerned when a child is not reading well or at all by age 8. The model does not work when applied nationwide. A child who goes to Waldorf school and who has college-educated parents who read to him or her every night and surround him/her with books and speak to him/her in beautiful vocabulary probably (in most cases, but not all--sometimes they miss LDs) will do just fine and maybe more than fine not reading till 10. It would be damned foolish to therefore yank researched and intensive reading instruction away from socioeconomically disadvantaged kis with HS dropout parents and no books in the house on the theory that they of course would do just as well as Waldorf kid without being taught these skills. Why no one gets this, I have no idea.

    Last edited by ultramarina; 06/10/12 11:36 AM.
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    I read to my kids from the time they were infants. I took picture books with us to church, and my little one would sit on my lap while I took their finger and pointed or traced images or letters - not so much to get them to read early as to get them to sit quietly still for an hour. We didn't have a tv, so reading books together was a favorite of my kids. We literally checked out 20-25 new picture books a week. I would read to them, then they eventually took my finger and wanted me to p oint to the words as I read. They loved their books on tape (yeah, they're THAT old) and listened to stories for hours with their tapes. They also loved the Living Books series that used to be available for PC's. The little one would listen repetitively in Japanese and Spanish rather than the English version. (drove me insane)

    My oldest was reading her first words before she was two and was a fluent reader by about 4. The middle was reading fluently by about the same age. The youngest just memorized entire books - including sounds effects - from the Living Books series. I now know he has dysgraphia, but I didn't push him when he was little.

    So I didn't go about to tech any of them to read early. I made it a part of our everyday life, and they decided when they wanted to read.

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    I don't think teaching kids to read, or any sort of reading facilitation, earlier than they learn in the public school system is a bad idea, particularly a giftie, as long as it's not forced. Plenty of parents that would huff and puff about hothousing probably give their kids Leapfrog and other toys that teach in various ways, or actively stimulate a child to self-teach (I don't think there's anything wrong with these in general, though I tend not to like them much either). I don't see harm unless the child is uninterested and "encouraged" despite that.

    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    It would be damned foolish to... yank researched and intensive reading instruction away from socioeconomically disadvantaged kis with HS dropout parents and no books in the house on the theory that they of course would do just as well as Waldorf kid without being taught these skills. Why no one gets this, I have no idea.
    A good way of putting it. I've never understood this either. Another thing I don't understand about Waldorf specifically is how people can point to the more supportive studies (and there are less supportive ones) as evidence that Waldorf is a perfectly great way to learn math, late start while fiddling with cornhusk dolls and all. I've always been more interested in finding out how to nurture math talent than eager to adopt teaching methods that aren't the worst when compared against public school results. I wonder how many Math Olympiad contestants relative to the general population have been Waldorfed...


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    When my boy was a toddler I bought "phonics 4 babies" by Mallory Lewis.  She's Sherri Lewis & Lambchops daughter.  Then I bought Hooked on Phonics. We used the pre-k letter sounds and names video game cd-rom for one year.  We used the letter cards only a little bit  to spell cat, mat, fat.  Then we bought reading eggs and used it for one year.  It's done.  He reads.  It took a total of 2 years.  He read Mapping Penny's World grade 3 picture book last night and was reading a few pages from Grammar Island 3rd grade grammar book on his own time for no reason the other day.  I have to say if he likes it enough to do it at times when you don't suggest it then maybe all you did was, "Light a fire.  Ignite a passion for learning.". I guess.  

    My daughter has learned some letter names and numbers from Sesame Street and Super Why.  He's got the same name as her brother which might be the appeal there.   I am going to start working with her when she turns 2 and her brother goes to school in Sept.

    Re : hot housing

    If it's only because I teach him too much then why do some school kids still not read and write after 8 hrs a day for 2 years in school?

    If you shouldn't hothouse then why does everybody send their kids to school for eight hrs a day, why can't they just play all day and just be kids?  




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