Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion High school wants to crush son's hopes and dreams

"Well rounded" as used seems to include some non-academics. However, non-academic factors seem to have undergone inflation in recent times as well, with resume/application coaches turning out "well-rounded" students by the truckload. Maybe the best solution is to place more emphasis on academics again, but this may not happen since reliance on soft factors gives the admissions committees more discretion.

Heh heh. I stand corrected!

I'm ridiculously well-rounded.

It's totally overrated-I can do a million things very well, and I'm an expert at none of them.

Focus on what you're good at.

Find a school that respects that. That's my advice...

I dont think 10 AP exams is necessarily well rounded.
Im not fond of the AP exam method of education. most of them just require alot of memorization and parroting back on a multiple choice exam that is entirely coachable. And pearson even trains the teachers to teach to the test properly. few schools have ap courses that go beyond that. the courses are hard because of the volume of stuff and the speed it has to be memorized. not because the material is hard or advanced.
If you are just going to college as job training, then fine get those credits out of the way as fast as you can and as cheaply as possible.
I would prefer a more robust curriculum of honors classes that introduce and encourage actual interaction with the material, analysis of it and then synthesis and creation of the students own work. a kid that can do that, can tackle any topic in higher education. Then they can go on to create and achieve because they will have the tools for it.
your 10AP kid will get a quick degree in something useful, get a good job with a company and begin paying back their student loans in a timely manner. but will they create or achieve? or will they just fufill a role as a microserf? especially if those 10 AP exams are all they did.
Pearson and the testing industry shouldnt be dictating the education of our kids. but alas, they are.

Well said, g2mom.

My alma mater (a small liberal arts college) places sharp limits on how much AP credit one can apply, and for what. Dashing through memorizing a lot of stuff is considered to be simply beside the point.

This college bumps in and out of first place for most undergrads who go on to earn a PhD.

Another update: In addition to the 4 APs, the school has approved the independent study course with his tutor--linear algebra and multivariate algebra--and my son's calculus AP teacher will coordinate from the school's side.

Re the value of APs. What's the alternative? The honor level courses are less rigorous, and the fact is that AP courses are accepted for credit or placement at colleges. I think that many of the criticisms leveled at AP courses apply to college courses--multiple choice tests, lack of independent inquiry, etc.

In my son's case,

AP US History: he will learn to analyze primary sources.

AP Statistics: I was reluctant for my son to take this because the math is below calculus level, but my son's math teacher--whom I respect--said the course is useful because you learn to write about mathematics.

AP Chemistry: also non-calculus, but my son knows little about chemistry beyond the basics of atomic structure, valences, and so forth. He will learn these things in detail.

AP Physics: ditto about the math, but he will learn enough to be the basis of more rigorous courses while still in high school.

In general, tasking these courses plus the independent study course will keep his academic plate full. I hope not to hear, "I have no homework," or "I did it all at school."

And the following year, he will be able to take courses--tuition free--at the local Ivy.

As for well roundedness, my son is not a simple resume builder for the sake of college admissions. I think colleges see through that. I am proud to say he follows his genuine interests--cello and trombone (master of the bass clef), lacrosse, soccer reffing. Next year, he will be doing math tutoring. This summer he has been invited to participate in a biostat program at the local Ivy's school of public health, when he is not volunteering as a junior counselor at the local ecology summer camp. And next year he will be tutoring math through his school's math honor society.

My point is, I guess, is that it's possible to cobble together a decent program without acceleration or early college admission.

I assume there's an assumed "because of the opportunities available to us, which meet the needs of my kid" in there? The first couple of times, I read that statement as a generalization, and the possibility of cobbling a program sufficient to avoid varies widely with the available opportunities and the needs of the kid.

The local high school here does not allow students to take AP courses prior to the 11th grade. Unfortunately, they also don't offer real honors courses, and instead choose to take the "embedded" honors approach, where everyone takes the same course, and the honors students do a bit of extra work.

APs prior to 11th grade would allow gifted students to be placed at an appropriate level, but the district here seems intent on having policies that slow gifted students down to the standard pace and level. And there are way more gifted kids in this district than is typical. I don't get why they have the policies they do, but they are pretty on board with supporting gifted athletes.

Yes, in general, there is an apparent lack of services for the intellectually gifted. In my state, gifted children are entitlted to an assessment but not services, while children with disabilities are entitled to both. Is this a prejudice or an attitude that says, "Well, these kids should be happy they fortunately don't need anything special to do well." But is that an attitude that applies mostly to the intellectually gifted? I like to say to the powers that be, "If my kid was a violin virtuoso, would you make him play in the school band?"

Re "cobbling together a decent program." Yes, of course it depends on what's available, but it also could mean expanding what's available to these normally not served, e.g., getting the restriction lifted on freshman or sophomores taking AP. Were the school adamant, it would be a problem. One reason we didn't consider the prestigious local private school is that it would absolutely not allow freshmen or sophomores to take APs.

Now that school has started here's an update.

All is well. My son--a high school sophomore--is taking four APs, chemistry, physics, statistics, and US history, in addition to getting credit for an independent math study with a private tutor in linear algebra and multivariate calculus.

He even has to take two courses as independent studies because of scheduling conflicts.

This will set him up well to take some courses at the local Ivy ( tuition free! through a special local city-university program).

It helps that the high school principal is fully supportive, in part because he has a solid record: a 5 on the calc ap, a perfect score on an international Latin competiton, being first in a regional math competiton.

I'm back posting this to demonstrate that some of these school struggle stories can have a happy ending even if they appear Sysyphean at the start.

It will be interesting to see if this schedule will be a real challenge. So far academics have been quite easy for him. I wonder how he will react to having to work hard--something that hasn't been necessary for him up to now. I wonder if that's a common issue for gifted kids--not having the experience of how to work hard when they confront academics that are challenging for the first time. If not this year, maybe next when he plans to take a math course that could require 20 hours per week on problem sets.

Incidentally, the principal asked if he's thinking about graduating high school early. I said our goal has always been for him to remain with his social peers as long as he could be challenged at his intellectual level. He does well socially and likes playing lacrosse and the trombone in the band After all, skipping from the 4th to the 6th grade, for example, would not have been a challenge but having a tutor in math back then met his need better.

But now that he's in high school, it's a valid question about considering early college as a meaningful move, intellectually. On the other had, he may become a de facto college student as a high school junior and senior, given his opportunity to take courses at the local university.

Err, yes - ask me how I know ;-/ Actually I think we've talked about this and many of us have this experience - for me, and I think for others, this is a huge part of what motivates the attempt to get appropriate challenge for our children. Great for your son if he can get that while still at school and with you to support him. And at the very least it sounds as though he's going to be interested!