Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion High school wants to crush son's hopes and dreams

At our local public high school, they offer roughly 35 AP classes. Some are things most kids will never take like year 5-6 Mandarin AP Chinese.
Anyway... I know they limit the AP classes sophomores can take and they don't allow freshmen to take any. (My kids are in grade school, so I don't have firsthand experience). My friends whose kids are there say it is because each AP class supposedly adds 4 hours each night of homework, and it would be too much for younger students. An A in an AP course is a 5, not a 4, on a 4.00 GPA, so it boosts your GPA.
I don't know obviously if that is why your school is digging in its heels. Your child can self-study and take AP exams on their own, if they really want to do that.
The other thing too is that high school kids can and should really focus on the "big" exams like the PSAT, SAT, ACT, and subject exams. You can take the PSAT as a sophomore. That can lead to some grants/scholarships.

Thanks for your replies.

@Polar bear. Perhaps I overstated it about the other side of the bell curve, and I've been on the local ARC board. But there is that distinction where gifted children in my state have no statutory right to services, whereas those with developmental challenges do. At least with a child who has challenges, you can say, that he or she has a right to such and such. My child has a right only to an assessment.

We do not see private school as an option. At the local,quite prestigious, private school, there are even more restrictions re AP courses than at our public school.If we lived in my home town, NYC, he would find an ideal school, Stuyvesant, Bronx Science or Brooklyn Tech. AP courses are an option for any student starting at freshman year. And they even have post-AP courses because so many of the kids have taken APs.

I am also biased towards the idea--at least--of the public school as the crucible of a democratic society. We also made a conscious decision to raise our family in the inner city rather than a suburb.Now that our kids are older--they can walk or take public transportation. Many of their suburban friends thinks it's cooler that our kids are in the city.

To a great extent we are meeting our child's needs with a tutor--who is exceptional himself. He has a PhD in math from the local Ivy, and was a medalist in the International Math Olympiad. What's nice about him is that he takes our child's ability for granted, and is credibly able to tell him that he needs to work hard rather than just relying on whatever gifts he has. Whatever happens with the school he will have his tutor to push him at the high level of which he is capable and move him along in math. (Our son wants to be a mathematician, so it's a perfect match.)

As far as the school goes, I'm confident we will work it out. We feel that the AP courses themselves are not ideal. Statistics and the Physics B are not calculus based, so they are actually the equivalent of the courses you would take if you were planning not to be a math or science major. But I'm buying into the statistics because one of his teachers says he will learn to write about mathematics--an important skill. And the physics will be, frankly, easy. My son, from calculus, already knows the Newtonian laws presented at calculus problems.

To a great extent, I'm just venting that it has to be a struggle. Somehow we naively imagined that when he got to high school--with all the APs--he'd be free and clear.

And after the sophomore year, he will be able to take college courses for free--due to a special program--at the local Ivy, although I'm sure we'll be hearing, "Oh, that's too many college courses for a high school junior."

You don't force a violin prodigy to play in the school band. But they want intellectual prodigies to play in the functional equivalent of the school band.

Update: the school caved, and approved 4 APs. Since I first posted, my son submitted a statement explaining why he wants to take those courses, and I sent an email simply stating that's his plan and we're sticking to it. We wanted them to know it's his idea and we're not simply crazy black helicopter parents. The school, seeing our (polite) assertiveness probably decided it wasn't worth the hassle--or maybe they're thing "it's your funera." It probably didn't hurt that my son had already excelled in calculus AP as a freshman, and has already established himself as the top math student at the school, and, through competiton, in the city.

Of course, they put up another--small-- hoop to jump through. His guidance counselor wants him to contact each of the AP teachers to inform them he's taking 4 APs, "so they'll know about his course load in case of a problem." Kind of labeling him in a way they wouldn't of he were a senior.

So now we're on to the next battle, getting an independent study class on his schedule for the work he will be doing with his tutor. Although his tutor has a PhD in math from the local Ivy, and teaches math there, an independent study class need a certified teacher to be considered a class. Ironic, since juniors at the high school can take college courses, but the professors of those courses can't officially head up an independent study class.

If my kid didn't enjoy living at home and being with his friends, I could see early college.

Hurray! Good for you!

We've also had good successes with our eldest when he makes the request himself.



The mind boggles. When I hear something this absurd, I usually figure that there's another agenda at work. Just my two cents.

Another two cents: do you have a friend with a teaching certification who'd be willing to sign the paper saying s/he's his tutor? She could sign, the college prof. could tutor your son, and everyone would be happy.

Congrats to you and your son!!!

Although I think the idea of your son having to inform his other AP teachers of his course load is beyond absurd...


It might just be local school policy - our school district policy requires the same thing. It's not a terribly big deal here - you just need to find a teacher who's willing to provide very minimal oversight, but it might be a little challenging the first year a student is enrolled at a school before they've had a chance to meet and get to know any of the teaching staff.

polarbear

I think you guys are blessed. When I was a kid there were no AP classes at my private school, I was denied the ability to check out more than a limited number of books, and colleges laughed at the idea of accepting a high school student. I slept through my math classes to the point that one day when i answered a question with my head on my desk the teacher said "don't talk in your sleep". I still won the state math competition and scored 800 on my SAT's, but had essentially no study skills from being bored for about 10 years. These are definitely not the dark ages, those are long past.

Why fight city hall? There is a lot out there to benefit from academically. Why push for boring test oriented AP courses? Try reading good books.

good luck, and take a break now and then and watch the sunset.

lol!

I'd see the silver lining in that-my kids would have been MISERABLE if they'd been accepted to a school that valued the flaky kid over the driven kid.

And I feel your pain, OP, about having to constantly advocate (I call it dropping the hammer) for your kid in public schools.

Again, I look at the silver lining: my kids see that an exceptional education is something you have to fight for, and they appreciate it.

I think we'd need to know a lot more about the entire applications and the discussion that happened among the admissions committee before we cast judgement. Here's one possible scenario:

Both students have near-perfect GPAs, both totally kicked their GRE's. AP student attended a private prep school that is known for pushing APs, and where taking the most APs the earliest is considered a sign of status. AP student wrote a cookie-cutter essay, and has lackluster recommendations that only speak to how well this student memorizes information.

Religion-Hopping student attended a fairly ordinary public school, but took several AP classes, and has effusive recommendations that speak to the student's insightful questions and willingness to challenge ideas. Religion-hopping student wrote a scholarly essay comparing the ethical systems of the different religions, including references to the academic literature which the student must have dug up on their own because there are no philosophy or ethics classes offered at their high school.

The media (even NPR) just love over-simplified "gotcha" stories. This is almost certainly one of them.

A UCLA admissions officer was asked about a student who took 10 AP classes:

http://www.layouth.com/how-colleges-pick-who-gets-in/

How colleges pick who gets in

...

L.A. Youth: What if one school offers fewer APs than another.

Pimentel: There’s another level to that. Let’s say a student goes to a school that offers 20 Advanced Placement courses but when they apply to college they’ve only taken one. That may not look too good to the admissions people. The person reading the application will wonder, “Is there a reason why?” That’s why the essay is very important. Maybe they are working 20 hours a week. Maybe they have to help pay bills in the house because somebody lost their job or mom or dad don’t make enough money. It could be that the student has done a lot of leadership in their school, in their community, with these responsibilities. So it’s the whole package we want to know. The student who has 10 AP classes, let’s say they haven’t done anything extracurricular. And they don’t have anything else to say in their personal statement: there are no family responsibilities, there’s no real reason why they’re not a well-rounded student. We may not take that student. And we may take the kid with only the one AP, it just depends on the situation.

I think most people underestimate the power of the personal statement. We want to get to know you, and we want to know the accomplishments that you’ve had so far and if there are challenges, what are the challenges and how have you dealt with them? The biggest mistake that students will make with the personal statement is they talk about other people or they talk about the problem. They may have an unfortunate family situation where things are not that great at home. But they fixate on only talking about that and they never say, “But despite this, this is what I’ve done to still do well in school.”

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Her answer does not make much sense to me. Someone who does well on 10 AP exams IS a well-rounded student. Not enough weight is being given to academic achievement IMO.