Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school need some serious advice on this one

DH said to post, so here I am...

DS (3 yrs) seems really, really, really stressed. Some of this might be symptoms from MMR (1 in 200 kids gets a bunch of this stuff), but most of it started before the MMR was given, so that can only explain, at most, the feaver and the joint pain -- much of the rest could have gotten worse due to the MMR, though. The feaver is almost certainly the vaccine talking, since it only appeared about when 1/7 kids gets a fever from MMR.

He has:
-a mild feaver that seems to come when he thinks of preschool and/or toileting, and go when he's on to something else.
-Joint pain, headaches, and tummy pain (1/200 kids get joint pain with MMR, in matching time-frames, the other two started before the vax)
-A crazy shrieking cry that seems to be associated with preschool and toileting that makes cops get out of our way, he keeps crying like this sometimes for an hour or more.
-An intense need to leave places when he starts thinking about toilets and preschool
-Drastically increased sleep requirements over the last 2-3 weeks.
-Throwing up (only at preschool)
-Sudden almost comlete loss of toilet training.
-One episode of unexplained Diahrea (at preschool)
-Apparently trying to answer all questions relating to preschool to please the asker. (IE: he's saying what he thinks you wanna hear, the answers change around a lot... but ultimately, I think he really does want to stop going, it's just a little hard to be completely sure.)

We are pulling him out of preschool, we decided that on Friday. But how worried should we be? We're going to take him to the doctor to make sure he's not really sick with somehting strange. All the symptoms come and go, apparently comming when preschool is discussed, or when we start getting ready to leave to go there... it seems likely that it's stress,but if this is stress, it seems REALLY serious.

Should we switch to pull-ups for a while untill this blows over? Or just cope with accidents and get through?

How worried should I be if this is stress from a totally normal preschool experience? How worried should I be just because he's been this stressed? Does it sound like stress to anyone else? Does it sound like some particular illness I'm not thinking of?

Sorry, we're really pretty worried, there have been problems since the beginning, but things are really comming to a head.

(he only went to preschool for 6 weeks)

-Mich

When was the diarrhea relative to the other symptoms? Because this mostly sounds to me like a sensitive kid who was shamed for an "accident" and it is blowing up.

If you're leaving the preschool anyway, I'd just try to get along for a few weeks (until he believes that you're not going to make him go back) and then see if symptoms persist.

It's great that you're going to the doctor to ask because I am very sure that I don't know and I don't have any advice.

If it makes you feel better though the homeopathic thing I heard was that a reaction like a small fever to a shot was actually a better sign in the long run because it means the body is self aware enough to respond to the shot.  

About the potty training My sister she potty trained my nephew by reminding him to go potty and having him "try" on a schedule.  Excuse me, but I was like, "can you 'go' on command or do you go when you need to go?".    Maybe that's your son's issue with the preschool potty.  
Daycare providers might think nothing of lining kids up to "try to go" on a schedule and that might be bothering your son if he's used to going when he feels the need.  Alternatively, being unpotty- trained could be one less thing than he can handle right now with everything changing.  My son unpotty- trained shortly when I had a new baby.  He retrained several months later.   

I want to be reassuring for you not to worry so much that he hated this one preschool experience so badly.   His feelings may be sensitive or easily hurt compared to his age.  But he will still grow and develop like a normal human being.  The bad times might be less tolerable, that's all.  That doesn't mean they'll be mostly bad.  You can't predict the future from one bad experience.  Sometimes you'll find a teacher you guys love.  

Definitely worth seeking medical advice to exclude organic causes. Headaches and tummy pain are common stress indicators but not joint pains. Has he been constipated at all? If there is any pain with toileting it can make them hold on (and on and on) which can also give headaches, tummy pain and diarrhoea (leaks around what is sitting there).
Hope it sorts itself out soon.
If it is any consolation a friend recently was telling me about the horrendous year her EG boy had in preschool (now gr 4). She asked him last week what he thought was the worst thing about preschool. He said one day she had told him she would put an apple in his lunch and she had put a banana in instead!

In case it is not preschool related... And I'm sure you are educated on common ailments, but just in case, Lyme Disease causes many of his symptoms. Don't know if you live in a prone area but joint pain and fever is almost always Lyme where we live. I have seen kids vomit at school before being diagnosed and there CAN be neurological symptoms from it. It is usually very treatable with three weeks of harsh antibiotics. I'm not a doc though, just live in a high Lyme area.

My guess is that this is stress-related. I'm wondering if the reports of joint pain could have started with you asking him about it specifically when he was first seeming ill, because you were thinking about the MMR? If so, then he might have said "yes," and continued to report it as a symptom, just as a way to indicate how bad he is feeling. I'm not saying you shouldn't get him checked, I'm just saying that all the symptoms could fit a stress explanation.

On the stress scenario, it seems like the worry is, is this an extreme reaction to something relatively ordinary going on at preschool? Or is something really really bad happening to him at preschool? Neither one is a happy thought.

You don't say whether you're planning to pull him immediately or at the end of the school year. Is there any way you can pull him immediately, or at least keep him out for the next few days?

Michaela
I remember you posting about the potty issues but it seems like it has ratcheted up dramatically and I am with MegMeg, the fact that it seems tied to preschool is cause for concern. I think you need a sit down with the preschool teachers and directors about what happened in the bathroom - did they just say something to him which is now freaking him out - did they shame him about the diarrhea? It would be helpful if you could timeline it - diarrhea from something else or bad reaction because of diarrhea. If something at prek is freaking him out so much that he is getting diarrhea then you need to find out what is going on. If he had diarrhea and then is reacting to being teased or embarrassed, you need to know also. Either way he is crying out for help - but I am with MegMeg - he needs assistance but you need to know for what, and how bad it is.

Try talking to him when calm, not about inside the bathroom, but maybe what leads up to it - DS, do you go as a group, do you miss things when you go to the bathroom, who takes you, does anyone help you with your pants - etc. Or what's in there, have you seen the girls bathroom (if separate) Like you want to know how it works, you might be able to get him to talk about it which might help ease into more specific discussions, like about his tummy hurting?

i think there are markers for inflammation which causes joint pain, they might be able to do a blood test - there are tests they run for RA and also just to test his white count.

I hope you can find some answers - super frustrating when you need a straight answer from a 3 year old and they can't do it!

DeHe

DeHe

Michaela, I'm in a rush at the moment, but I feel so for your sweet ds. While he's most likely clearly under stress at preschool, I'd also just like to add a suggestion to pay close attention to his symptoms, what's happening when etc, and take him in to see the dr. Our dd10 was a happy, healthy kid until she had her MMR combo vaccine at 18 months, she developed a fever within 24 hours, and medical problems that developed soon after that have been a huge part of her life ever since. Joint and stomach pain, incredibly loose stools were among the symptoms. Chances are what's going on with your ds are not related to the MMR, but at the very least there's a chance he has something going on medically that is important to check out.

I hope he's feeling better soon!

polarbear

He reported the joint pain without being asked, I didn't know it was a possible MMR side effect till DH looked it up later. But the loose stools were before the vax. Dr says he's definitly not sick, and wants us to come back if stopping preschool doesn't affect the symptoms. I'm assuming he'd do blood work and stuff at that point. I was kinda hoping he'd do that now, but he was really pretty convinced. He's also seen DS twice in two weeks, and every couple of months lately, because of the new baby, so probably he really does have a pretty good sence.

We've taken him out imediately (did not go today), and there already seems to be some improvement. He went to bed at a normal time tonight, which... erm... well, may not be good, but at least it's familliar!

I don't think anything really bad is going on at preschool... it seems to be a pretty nice place, there is one "teacher" that doesn't seem to "get" him (babies him becasue of his age, and explains away the whole can-do-stuff thing all the time) There have been a few messages he's gotten that I don't like, but we are very religious (minority trad), and also politically marginalized, it's not like these are messages that most people would be unhappy with (ie: "putting bad people in jail keeps others safe" type messages).

I think the diareah was the first unavoidable symptom, the first one that really didn't seem to have any reasonable explanation. He's definitly not constipated. (sorry, a bit too much info here)

Also, the more MMR-specific stuff seems to have lasted only a few hours. He did throw up just after the Drs appt where we talked about preschool, but has been fine since then, none of the symptoms have been showing very much, and he had no accidents all day, thought he did claim to have had two... which was a bit wierd.

Ag.

At least it looks like we're doing the right thing by quitting the school. I'm a bit worried about going back to drop off/pick up some things. Oh well. Life goes on.

-Mich

Truthfully it sounds stress related. Let us know update when he has been out of preschool for a while. I am glad you listened to him. Something may be happening to him at school that he can't quite explain.