Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Best test for a 5 year old?

We are considering getting our 5 year old son tested. He will hopefully be starting an online school in the fall and we want him tested to assure that he will be placed at an appropriate level. I doubt that people really believe me when I tell them what level he is at and that he learns most things on his own, without much parental involvement. It would be nice to have a score that back us up.

He is more advanced verbally than mathematically. He taught himself to read at age two, and is currently reading (and comprehending) books like James and the Giant Peach, Stuart Little, Charlotte's Web. etc.) He is also very musically gifted and plays the piano extremely well. He's able to add double digits with carrying, understands fractions, etc., but his math skills don't stand out near as much as his ability other areas.

At age 4 he told me since he knew the capitals of the 50 states, he wanted to learn the capitals of all the countries. It took him a few days, but not only did he learn each of the capitals, he was able to just see the shape of a country, tell you the capital, and show you exactly where it belongs on a globe (for nearly 200 countries).

I've read that the Stanford-Binet is better for math kids, and the WISC-IV better for verbal kids, but he's only 5 (just turned 5) and I don't think he's able to take the WISC yet. Any advise from those of you who have gone through a similar experience? Thanks-

Heather

Sounds like what you want is achievement testing, more than IQ testing. If the online school doesn't have a placement test, ask them what they'd accept when determining placement.

I think an IQ number will be helpful in knowing 'what you've got' in front of you - clearly he is on an different developmental path than 99.5% of the adult advisors you meet will be familiar with. Obviously WISC 4 isn't possible unless you wait. So SB is the way to go. They are very similar in most ways. An achievement test is a nice compliment to round out the picture, but I don't think it will help you much in placement.

Sad truth is that for a kid like yours, placement is a bit of trial and error. In the beginning I naively thought that if I could just find the right test, it would tell me exactly where my kid was academically and where to start at school. NOT.

But in retrospect, that helped me understand that flexibility was going to be my strongest ally in the task ahead - raising a kid where all the predicitions for how he 'should' be were just plain wrong.

I would recommend that if you got to the trouble of testing, you find a tester who tests kids with IQ scores over 140 on a regular basis, at least monthly. Part of what you are getting from the investment of your time, money and hope is a relationship with a professional who will be the exception to your current experience of being disbelieved and left on your own. Local tester generally spend the bulk of their time with kids who have significant challenges. A tester with out this particular expertise will probably slip back into denial the minute the scoring is completed, and even if not, how much clinical experience can they have. I hate it when a tester says 'That's the highest IQ score I've ever tested.' because it means (IMO) 'All the things I think I know about kids, and that I'll repeat to you with great conviction, actually don't apply to your kid, but I'll say them anyway, out of habit.'

A book like '5 levels of giftedness' by Deb Ruf, might be enough support for you to decide you can wait for the testing until you can set up a vacation and travel for testing.

I would definitely try to talk to some local friends who are using the online school and get a look at collection of materials from whatever grade level you think might be appropriate. It may be that with an 'out of the box' kid that a packaged curriculum isn't going to work at any level. Sometimes state online schools 'don't allow' gradeskips even with testing. Letting the public schools do their own testing is helpful in a way, even though they don't have that particular expertise, because they they 'really believe' it.

srry to go on and on, but I've been there and it's heavy to face so much attitude from well meaning people.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Welcome Heather! Your DS sounds quite a lot like mine (now 8) was at that age - the early self-taught reading and the phenomenal memory, with maths that seemed less startling (mine wasn't musically exceptional; he does nicely with piano now, but is no prodigy there). Warning: the next thing was that his maths took off, and now it is clearly his greatest strength area. I have heard, and seen some anecdotes to confirm, that early self-taught reading can actually be a sign of mathematical ability to come: it's code-cracking, and arguably to do that essentially unaided requires more in the way of real mathematical ability than anything demanded in school maths lessons, so it makes some kind of sense to me! Will be interesting to see how your DS goes, but I will say: make sure you give him plenty of maths exposure (problem solving I mean, logic puzzles and the like, not long division unless he likes that!).

Can't help with testing and online schools specifically but what others have said seems sound. I'll respectfully disagree with the suggestion that you look at Ruf, though, because as far as I've ever been able to gather it's not remotely evidence-based; people like it if it seems to fit their child, but even then they don't really learn anything, and often it doesn't. JMO.

This is a really interesting thread, thank you for starting it and I hope you don't mind me jumping in on it...:-)

My DS4.5 sound very similar to your boy. I had to laugh when you wrote about capitals. My DS has been obsessing over that too. He got a puzzle for his birthday when he turned 4 and sat all day until he knew every single capital He also then moved on the the world capitals. Learned to read at 2 1/2 BY HIMSELF. I think that is just it. They learn BY THEM SELVES. Isn't it the craziest thing?
Math is also a strong point for him. Doing subtraction/addition with regrouping. My son is NOT musical though....:-)

So it seems our boys are very similar and I am in the same boat as you when thinking about what to do as far as tests. I want to know what I am dealing with IQ wise. I read the 5 levels of gifted that was mentioned. Excellent book BTW! Seems he falls in level 4. I would assume your DS is around there too.

I contacted GDC in Denver and had a WONDERFUL consultation with Bobbie (Barbara Gilman, author of "Academic Advocacy for Gifted Children".) We are spending the summer in Denver and will do the testing then. She was amazing to talk to and said that they will start doing the WIIPSI first. She said he might hit the ceiling on this and then they will do the SB. They will also do an achievement test.

DS is entering Kindergarten (private school) early but will obviously have to be accelerated in certain subjects like reading and math. I hope that I can bring in the achievement test results to show the school so thay can place him accordingly. This is all HOPING that they will work with us on this, they said they would...I will believe it when I see it.

What is your son's school situation?

Thanks for your replies! It's so great to know that there are other kids out there like my son! I sure wish I could find local kids his age that have similar interests.

I've been looking into Connections Academy for a few reasons. I have a 2.5 year old son (also very intense) and am due to have another son any week now. I figured with a newborn and a toddler, some sort of "structure" will be good my DS. I've talked with the local principal and she seems willing to allow him to work at an appropriate level and at his own pace. It's a public school (and free!) so we going to give it a try. I can always withdraw if it's not working out. He has taken the first placement test and to be honest, my 2.5 year old would have aced it too. After the lottery, they'll have him take the placement test for the next few grades up.

We've spoken with the Gifted Development Center in Denver a few times, and that's likely where we would get him tested. We have a phone consult scheduled in a couple weeks. I think we'll just follow their advice. I know eventually it will really help us to get him tested.


1111- if you will be in Denver this summer, you have to check out the Natural History museam (not sure of the correct name). I took my kids there a few months ago. We got there when it opened and they begged to stay until it closed! They even convinced me to take them again a few days later. It's really fantastic. Even my DS2 loved it!


I really appreciate your comments!

That sounds like a really promising school! Like you said, give it a try! Nothing sounds more like music to my ears than "he can work at his own pace".

Thank you for the tip about the Natural History Museum! We are looking for all kinds of museums and fun things to do. We are also going to take them to the opera in Central city. Both kids are extremely interested in music (baby brother DS is 28 months) although I don't see them being concert pianists or anything. But a love for music can only be positive. DS28mo has an incredible ability to sit and focus so I think it should be fun.

Let us know what they say at the consult at the GDC. I filled out all the paper work but it wasn't until I spoke with her she realized he might hit the ceiling on the WIIPSI. We also talked a lot about his little brother whom also, most likely is gifted.
It was just an amazing feeling to speak to someone so openly and get such amazing feedback.

No advice on testing, but I just wanted to say we had a great experience with the GDC last spring/summer.
1111- I agree it was amazing to speak to someone and get great feedback on the phone consult.
My son loved testing with them and begged to go back in the evening not wanting to wait until morning for the rest of his testing.

Denver has some great places to visit, I hope you enjoy your summer there!