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So I couldn't resist replying because my background leaves me uniquely positioned to do so - I went to HS in Kansas and many of my years-long classmates in middle/high school went on to enroll in KU's undergrad honors program while I went to MIT for undergrad.
Nice to see another Jayhawker on this board. We actually agree on most things. Elite schools have students that are considerably more talented than the average State U student, and offer better job prospects and a better network. I would have attended Caltech if it was affordable at the time.
Originally Posted by mn28
While these high school colleagues of mine were unquestionably bright, it also was true that it wasn't difficult for me to stand out amongst them throughout my secondary school career (and some of these ended up being the 'top' performers at the KU honors program). The undergrad students at MIT, however, (emphasis on undergrad) were at a whole different level. That's not to say that every single student I encountered at MIT was brilliant, but I had never been in 'shock and awe' at someone's abilities before arriving there.
It's funny. That's exactly what I was hoping from MIT but was disappointed when I didn't get it. Many MIT grads are obviously quite bright. Having lived in the Boston area for about 20 years, I know several hundred of them through school, or work, and there are about 10 in my neighborhood.
Yet the single brightest person I have ever met to this day was in my honors cohort at KU, which consisted of the 1% of incoming students, (and I struggled to keep up with them). This particular person was an anomaly in his family. His parents never attended college, and thought he should go to community college! After landing at KU, he became president of a couple of groups, had an incredible gift of picking up languages, and later became a Marshall scholar. Oh and he had a perfect GPA through high school, undergrad (Electrical Engineering), and I would bet through grad school as well, even though I barely saw him study.
I agree there are a lot of bright kids at MIT and other top privates.
But, I wonder how much of it is prep vs innate ability?
I went to a tier 1 state school with some "prodigies" from Eastern Europe. They were pretty impressive at first, but by the end of my senior year, I was equal or better than them in most areas, as a result of hard work and the program. As were a few other US students. And I was not too impressed with the MIT profs who visited the school. The only exception was a Caltech prof who I learned a lot from.
While networking and school name may have cachet for undergrads, by the time you are 10 years out from school, real life performance begins to sift people out. Many of my classmates from HS had SAT scores < 1400 and went to state schools are now deans, top surgeons, or are at the top of their fields or corporations. The ones who did go to the MITs really have not achieved much relative to the rest of us.
For this reason, I consider MIT and Stanford regional colleges. I do think they have some great departments, but the world does not revolve around them.
College Navigator, a government site, has statistics on net prices of colleges. Here are numbers for Harvard
YEAR AVERAGE NET PRICE 2009-2010 $16,459 2008-2009 $16,156 2007-2008 $19,482 The net price for 2009-10 is further reduced by an average of $2,413 by scholarships received from outside sources.
and UC Berkeley
YEAR AVERAGE NET PRICE 2009-2010 $15,765 2008-2009 $14,818 2007-2008 $13,863
"Average net price is generated by subtracting the average amount of federal, state/local government, or institutional grant or scholarship aid from the total cost of attendance. Total cost of attendance is the sum of published tuition and required fees, books and supplies, and the weighted average for room and board and other expenses. Full-time beginning undergraduate students who were awarded grant or scholarship aid from federal, state or local governments, or the institution."
The cost of Berkeley has almost risen to that of Harvard for the 2009-2010 academic year. Harvard is probably cheaper for low-income students and more expensive for higher-income ones.
"To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
The cost of Berkeley has almost risen to that of Harvard for the 2009-2010 academic year. Harvard is probably cheaper for low-income students and more expensive for higher-income ones.
The averages hide the details and gotchas that matter.
An NMSF kid who can get into an Ivy will get a much better deal at a state school tuition wise. Many will get full rides. Having to cover just living expenses.
And if you rely on financial aid, and if you win some minor scholarships, ie 2K a year, that will count against your financial aid. You still have to pick up the bucket. The Ivy just gives you less.
Whereas at the state school the minor stipends can go to your benefit, ie for living expenses. It did for me.
It gets t the age-old question if the name or ranking of the school really matters. I think it does. For myself, having the Harvard Med name on my resume helped me get into very competitive fellowships. Only 5-10% of doctors in my field are female. On the other hand, my clasmates at my rural Midwestern public high school were still the smartest people I have met, and that was still the most competition I have faced academically. It will be interesting to see if the name brand of the Ivies still hold p when the cost per year goes beyond $100,000.
It gets t the age-old question if the name or ranking of the school really matters. I think it does. For myself, having the Harvard Med name on my resume helped me get into very competitive fellowships. Only 5-10% of doctors in my field are female. On the other hand, my clasmates at my rural Midwestern public high school were still the smartest people I have met, and that was still the most competition I have faced academically. It will be interesting to see if the name brand of the Ivies still hold p when the cost per year goes beyond $100,000.
You are confusing undergrad (which you should get paid for above a certain level of intelligence) with grad school (which you will have to shell out $$$ for).
Even I'm not arguing that you shouldn't go to Harvard for med school (or law school) and pay a ton of money to do it. If I had the opportunity to go to Harvard for grad school in either medicine or law, I would have done it for the reasons that you state in your response.
